tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post118652807857514873..comments2024-03-29T11:07:51.893+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Lies, Damn Lies, and "Inferences"Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-92166313542537277992011-10-16T14:54:18.415+13:002011-10-16T14:54:18.415+13:00To: Gem.
You're absolutely right about my com...To: Gem.<br /><br />You're absolutely right about my comparison with the service-station attendant. I knew as soon as I said it that it was wrong, wrong, wrong.<br /><br />I stand, justifiably, rebuked.<br /><br />To: Don.<br /><br />As ever, New Zealand's foremost working-class bard produces the goods - and in cadences Banjo Patterson would be proud of!<br /><br />keep 'em coming, Comrade.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-46583618442226406902011-10-16T13:53:48.355+13:002011-10-16T13:53:48.355+13:00Undoubtedly deliberate deceit, but more significan...Undoubtedly deliberate deceit, but more significant issues face us at this moment.<br /><br /><br />YOUNG RICHIE McCAW<br /><br />Oh, see the fleet foot therapists who come with faces drear<br />From Invercargil to North cape with all their latest gear<br />They come to inject and massage, too late with all that shite<br />For young Ritchie McCaw goes out to play at Eden park tonight!<br /><br />Out from beneath the stand he stepped, unsmiling and unshaved<br />to face the wretched Wallabies so craven and depraved <br />With never a tear in his black jersey, but his foot not right<br />As young Ritchie McCaw goes out to play at Eden park tonight!<br /><br />When he last steps upon that field his shining ball in hand<br />Around him march in grim array a stalwart earnest band.<br />with no Dan Carter in the side things don't bode too bright<br />still young Ritchie McCaw goes out to play at Eden park tonight!<br /><br />On one small steel connecting pin the hopes of kiwis ride<br />as Ritchie's foot still hobbles on, its niggling bolt inside<br />oil slicks and earthquakes we'll forget, we know that she'll be right<br />if young Ritchie McCaw can just come through at Eden park tonight!Don Franksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38756979930379534732011-10-16T13:37:47.890+13:002011-10-16T13:37:47.890+13:00In the midst of the furore over our Johno’s elusiv...In the midst of the furore over our Johno’s elusive emailing friend, we seem to be losing sight of what the guy from S&P told the New Zealand Herald,in connection with this matter.<br /> <br />Commenting on our chance of upping our status, Kyran Curry told Audrey Young that this would come from “stronger export performance and an improvement in public savings”.<br /><br />This, he said, involved "getting back to what New Zealand was actually doing not three years ago".<br /><br />Now my memory is not as good as it used to be, but I distinctly remember Helen Clark and Michael Cullen leaving office not three years ago.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-39172506388153069702011-10-16T12:53:31.810+13:002011-10-16T12:53:31.810+13:00Chris – I heard you this morning on Kerre Woodham’...Chris – I heard you this morning on Kerre Woodham’s show. Judith Collins is a disgrace. You did a fantastic job undermining her fatuous comments.<br /><br />By retrospectively attributing his comments to an anonymous source, John Key is admitting that he lied by omission in Parliament when he made his comments about Standard & Poor’s without saying, “According to my anonymous source…” Of course, Key didn’t make this attribution in the first instance, because he knows that depending on an anonymous source whose existence can’t be proved isn’t conducive to making a credible argument. <br /><br />As you mentioned, another problem with anonymous sources is proving that they exist. Key spoke authoritatively about a meeting that he didn’t attend and went on to conjure up a mysterious source in a clumsy attempt to cover his original dishonesty. We could all invoke a shadowy informant to strengthen our arguments. However, generally, this practice isn’t looked upon kindly. Students are repeatedly reminded to avoid claiming others’ ideas as their own and to substantiate assertions with traceable references. Regarding the justice system, in many countries, the use of anonymous jailhouse snitches is frowned upon and is believed to be one of several key factors that result in injustices. We see unsubstantiated claims and the invocation of supposedly helpful but ultimately untraceable sources in other sectors as dishonest and cowardly. So, why should we tolerate this conduct in politics? It isn’t enough to say that the nature of politics is by definition shady and corrupt. This “boys will be boys” attitude allows unethical practices to continue. We must have higher expectations of politicians. If their conduct is unscrupulous, we ought to hold them to account, rather than excusing them in terms of our low expectations of their behaviour, thus lowering our expectations and their conduct even further. <br /><br />If we want New Zealand to be a democracy, we have to expect Prime Ministers and other MPs, whatever their ideology, to make assertions and advance arguments with reference to traceable, reputable sources. During Woodham’s programme, Collins mentioned that left wing MPs often make unverifiable comments. I’m sure they do. However, if that is the best Collins can offer (it doesn’t matter if we do it because they do it too), she is in an embarrassingly weak position. It’s akin to saying that it’s OK to murder someone because many murders have occurred.<br /><br />People interpret information and create arguments through their own ideological lens. Imagine a reputable research group, comprised of members with a range of political beliefs, releases the results of research about a particular issue. Naturally, a Labour MP would interpret the research paper in a way that advances Labour’s political goals, just as a National MP would construe the data in a way that furthers National’s political aspirations. Differences of interpretation and opinion lead to healthy debate, which is essential for democracy. It doesn’t matter that different people understand the same information differently. This is normal. What does matter is when there is no accessible, reputable information to understand; when political arguments are no longer made with reference to data that other politicians and the public can access and about which a diversity of viewpoints can be formed. <br /><br />Key has misled Parliament and the public. No amount of playground arguments, such as Collins uses, changes that. Key must apologise. He should start taking his job seriously. <br /><br />I would like to make one further comment about your debate: your likening of the Rena captain to someone who works as a petrol station attendant was unfortunate. If everyone who works in a low paid job resigned, our society would quickly descend into chaos. Perhaps you could have chosen your words more carefully and highlighted the captain’s evident failings without denigrating other people in our society who work hard, long hours in roles that often go unacknowledged.Gemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15118177706026819668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-5490658112585437522011-10-15T15:29:49.238+13:002011-10-15T15:29:49.238+13:00Either that or it was a blatant, bare-faced lie an...Either that or it was a blatant, bare-faced lie and the "email" a total fabrication. <br /><br />The phrasing "..I thought you could well use" and "the inference was clear" are just a little too perfectly greasy and aimed at possible later scrutiny: "as you see the emailer encouraged me your honour, and I'm a busy man. And he said inference, guv, not implication. No one's blaming S&P, it's all his fault".<br /><br />He'll never be found, but a whipping boy just might be hired.<br /><br />As for a "clever journalist" in NZ in 2011 with the balls to prove that St John's a liar - are you 'avin a larf?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-92071522099472362282011-10-15T13:16:56.706+13:002011-10-15T13:16:56.706+13:00When does deliberate misinformation become lies?
...When does deliberate misinformation become lies? <br />http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/04/lying-fudging-and-misinformation.htmlDave Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12428353657153292616noreply@blogger.com