tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post2499726621185935567..comments2024-03-29T03:41:12.499+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Rejecting The TPP Could Help Labour Win In 2017.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-37485927261188473192015-10-15T00:02:12.995+13:002015-10-15T00:02:12.995+13:00"Well, if Anonymous@11:55 isn't the best ..."Well, if Anonymous@11:55 isn't the best argument for a thorough purge of the NZLP, I don't know what is."<br /><br />Come on Chris, I'm sure you can detect when you're being "concern trolled" by a right wing blogger... the clue was here:<br /><br />"continuing with the great work of Helen and John, the perfect duet of centrist stability."<br /><br />No member of the NZLP believes that. No-one. These fakes an imitators are a dime a dozen in the blogosphere and part of the right-wing media strategy... interlopers. But when you call them for what they are, then you get called part of the authoritarian/thought-policing Left.<br /><br />Can't win with them, so better off ignored.the pigmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06130808666556202354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38941074266420059342015-10-14T20:08:28.538+13:002015-10-14T20:08:28.538+13:00Fair enough, Galeandra. Here's the link to a m...Fair enough, Galeandra. Here's the link to a more comprehensive evaluation.<br /><br />http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2009/03/labour-political-party-or-cosy-club_06.html<br /><br />Enjoy.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25506647836416188522015-10-14T16:25:45.404+13:002015-10-14T16:25:45.404+13:00Time for a distraction and a smile.
This link is R...Time for a distraction and a smile.<br />This link is Rex Harrison intoning Never let a Woman in your Life from his My Fair Lady. <br /><br />Just take out the word 'Woman' and put in 'Leftie', and imagine that Andrew Little is holding forth about the chorus of disagreement from the left Left, or as it might be said the old Labour Party before the days of leaky homes afflicted our House of Parliament.<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_-K66UAjbEgreywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-55050744397414567542015-10-14T14:11:12.780+13:002015-10-14T14:11:12.780+13:00Fuck me "Piss and Shit" indeed. – Never ...Fuck me "Piss and Shit" indeed. – Never trust someone who can't swear properly :-).Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-28816493855757908212015-10-14T14:10:08.119+13:002015-10-14T14:10:08.119+13:00As for Anonymous's 11.55 vision of "conti...As for Anonymous's 11.55 vision of "continuing with the great work of Helen and John, the perfect duet of centrist stability" I'd die laughing if it wasn't so sad for the people whose daily life grind reflects this 'centrist stability'. I guess we might deem this the Age of Bandaid, with due apologies to both Geldof and Johnson & Johnson. Galeandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07139065698464817175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-6650371622348231582015-10-14T14:02:06.902+13:002015-10-14T14:02:06.902+13:00" We should also note, sadly, that Andrew Lit..." We should also note, sadly, that Andrew Little has reverted to type. Namely, to his default setting of a "moderate" former trade union official, who never met a boss he didn't like, or a rank-and-file he wasn't willing to treat like little children."<br /><br />C'mon,Chris, that's a bit of a smear insofar as it's a sweeping assertion without the grace of any evidence. It's reasonable to ask you to, at the least, take a little time to write a response defending your comment.Galeandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07139065698464817175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-27062580221982264792015-10-14T13:58:59.597+13:002015-10-14T13:58:59.597+13:00Well, if Anonymous@11:55 isn't the best argume...Well, if Anonymous@11:55 isn't the best argument for a thorough purge of the NZLP, I don't know what is.<br /><br />I think it instructive to point out that his violent rhetorical style is most commonly found in the outpourings of psychopaths. It wouldn't be out of place on the pages of the NSDAP's "Der Sturmer", or the "zines" of racist American hate groups.<br /><br />"Piss and Shit" indeed.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45804966905970504822015-10-14T13:38:07.669+13:002015-10-14T13:38:07.669+13:00Hi Grey, Not badmouthing Greens, merely pointing o...Hi Grey, Not badmouthing Greens, merely pointing out that they as much as the rest of us continue to talk up the need to protect the environment etc etc yet like the rest of us continue to use the products that are killing the same environment, causing global warming etc. Just like I am now typing away on the product of several barrels of crude oil on a media estimated to consume 10% of the world electricity. We are all guilty, the Greens get no exemption from guilt.Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38213282005299652182015-10-14T12:43:42.886+13:002015-10-14T12:43:42.886+13:00Only 5 of the 29 chapters of the Trans Pacific Par...Only 5 of the 29 chapters of the Trans Pacific Partnership relate to what would normally be called trade. Referring to the pact as a Free Trade Agreement is either naive or willfully deceptive as to what the document really is.<br /><br />The aim of the document is to reduce competition and protect corporate monopolies. The first chapter has been vile enough with states agreeing to prevent the sale and manufacture of generic life-saving drugs. Only those with extreme wealth will now have any hope of access to emerging medication. We know our Internet Service Providers will now act in the service of multinational corporations, not the customers who subscribe to their service. ISPs will be required to remove any digital content upon directive of corporates whom will no longer require the support of the courts. We've only had one chapter released so far and by itself, is enough to send chills down the spine.<br /><br />A better insight as to what the TPP really is can be read straight from the hand of the <a href="https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/blog/2015/march/isds-important-questions-and-answers-0" rel="nofollow">United States Trade Representative</a> in relation to the Investor State Dispute Settlement process (ie, the right of corporations to sue governments when impacted by legislation and judicial verdict). They state:<br /><br /><i>Before we had investment rules and ISDS international agreements, unlawful behaviour by countries that targeted foreign investors tended either to go unaddressed or escalate into conflict between countries. In fact, early in our history, the U.S. had to deploy “gunboat diplomacy,” or military intervention, to protect private American commercial interests. ISDS is a more peaceful, better way to resolve trade conflicts</i><br /><br />In black-and-white the TPP is referred to in the context of modern "gunboat diplomacy" that will protect "private American commercial interests" without the previous need of resorting to military intervention. This new "rule of law" doesn't recognise the supremacy of our parliament or the ideological requirement of democratic law being the expression of informed consent of the governed. This shows the TPP to have more in common with colonialism than any benign concept of trade. <br /><br />Allowing ourselves to be "excluded" is anything but mad and questions if Anonymous comments suggesting otherwise are simply foolish or part of a greater agenda.Lozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12064567381918975446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45794827097410031322015-10-14T11:55:03.735+13:002015-10-14T11:55:03.735+13:00"banal moral vacuity of the Labour Right"..."banal moral vacuity of the Labour Right" vs the self indulgent Narcissism of the far left. I'm always amazed at the sanctimonious self righteousness of the hard left - you are the ultimate secular fundamentalist Chris, I'd take power with all the sacrifices needed to win it over sanctimonious snarling from the underbelly of political irrelevance any day.<br /><br />If Andrew listens to you and your ilk he will be wiped out at the next election and hand 3 more years of principled opposition to the delight of the "NZLP members who still believe in your party's democratic socialist principles" these bearded tinhatted nutters who crave a Corbyn-Christ to be crucified as red redeemer.<br /><br />Piss and Shit Chris and Andy knows it, the TPP will be quietly forgotten and we can move on to the real vote winners of affordable housing and improvements in health, education and policing services - red meat for the rump of centrists we will need to win power and only when power is won can the real work of solid centrist policy improvements can be implemented - continuing with the great work of Helen and John, the perfect duet of centrist stability. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-2323072247875830362015-10-14T11:47:29.934+13:002015-10-14T11:47:29.934+13:00Hi again Chris
With the text still a secret th...Hi again Chris<br /> With the text still a secret the best guide to the future implications of this agreement for us is to watch Tim Groser's body language as he is questioned on the subject.<br />Cheers D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30616830409473125882015-10-14T10:59:14.771+13:002015-10-14T10:59:14.771+13:00Well, Anonymous, I suppose I should commend your h...Well, Anonymous, I suppose I should commend your honesty, and thank you for setting out so clearly what the real Labour Party is up against.<br /><br />Seldom have I seen the banal moral vacuity of the Labour Right expressed with more clarity.<br /><br />NZLP members who still believe in your party's democratic socialist principles, take note.<br /><br />We should also note, sadly, that Andrew Little has reverted to type. Namely, to his default setting of a "moderate" former trade union official, who never met a boss he didn't like, or a rank-and-file he wasn't willing to treat like little children.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-22657384085044866932015-10-14T09:58:00.127+13:002015-10-14T09:58:00.127+13:00As Helen Clark said, we are mad to allow ourselves...As Helen Clark said, we are mad to allow ourselves to be excluded from a trade block which involves 40% of the worlds economies and is set to expand, probably to 60% over the next decade.<br /><br />Interestingly an initial liberal opponent Paul Krugman is now tentatively changing his mind on the deal which looks a lot better than many on the left initially thought.<br /><br />The idea that Labour could head into an election opposing it is preposterous, only a zealot of the far left could believe such nonsense, middle NZ know which side they're bread is buttered on, and the TPP is undeniably good for middle NZ.<br /><br />Andrew Little will play verbal ducks and drakes for the next month and then when the hysterical tin hat wearing members and activists have accepted the inevitable he will quietly concede, setting up the possibility of Labour winning the vital middle ground and possibly the next election.<br /><br />Well done Andy, pay lip service to the nutters, you may need them to deliver pamphlets and man the phones, then quietly discard them and get on with the real work of getting power - working for middle NZ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-28293422214666478172015-10-14T09:03:47.523+13:002015-10-14T09:03:47.523+13:00considered this overnight, and noted by 7am this m...considered this overnight, and noted by 7am this morning there was no comment on the main right blogs re High Court and Justice Colins finding that Minister Groser, (aided and abetted by the peoples watchdog Ombudsmans Office) had acted unlawfully in respect of TPP OIA requests, <br /><br />no doubt the Crosby Textor/Nat HQ memo will arrive in due course, but it does appear the Nats have scrambled for a response for 24 hours, unlike NZ Labour who folded immediately after their bench met Mr Grosers delegation, why did Mr Little have to respond immediately rather than say “we are considering the ministers position but with the information to hand so we do not support the TPP”? Their are several answers, none of them good. Parliamentary political leaders have to stand for something and convey it simply. Labour really has come a “gutser” here as Norm Kirk might have said. Tiger Mountainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1376478859163841612015-10-13T16:37:48.352+13:002015-10-13T16:37:48.352+13:00Nick J
You are clear thinking about the future and...Nick J<br />You are clear thinking about the future and the need for great change but don't badmouth the Greens they are keeping the pressure up. It's like pulling sticking plaster off a hairy leg, fast, and you can leave another wound, slowly and surely is best but of course not too slow!greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45744057477027510432015-10-13T16:32:10.483+13:002015-10-13T16:32:10.483+13:00What about the 'bottom lines'?. Treachery ...What about the 'bottom lines'?. Treachery by charlatans. I have sympathy for your attempt to rally for Labour. Well done to you, bloody awful from Labour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83528642296760146472015-10-13T15:42:54.229+13:002015-10-13T15:42:54.229+13:00Grey,
Picketty, Atkinson and now Deaty have stuc...Grey, <br /><br />Picketty, Atkinson and now Deaty have stuck their hands up to say "guilty" about the system that impoverishes the 90% and gives the most to the one percent. They document it, make comments about how self destructive the system is, but ultimately they like Keynes propose to patch up the psychopath and send him back into the fray. They get given plaudits by the hand wringing acolyte classes of the current system (the Centre) who all then pretend that the whole thing will come right so long as somebody makes a very minor change without really changing anything. Oh and they don't intend to pay for it either! It is like global warming, we all carry on using plastics, driving cars etc, it is slow motion suicide but we do insist it will be OK. That thinking reminds me of the Greens and "sustainability" coupled with cell phones and internet. <br /><br />I like your likening Labour to a pile of creeping deceitful Uriah Heeps. So true.Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-64840042554087234952015-10-13T14:47:42.868+13:002015-10-13T14:47:42.868+13:00Some guy, I think said on Salon something like &qu...Some guy, I think said on Salon something like "there is no free market. Only a market that is managed on behalf of one or another group in society." Labour's job used to be that it was managed on behalf of working people.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-18097289995334769772015-10-13T14:17:48.518+13:002015-10-13T14:17:48.518+13:00I agree Greywarbler. We do need such work programm...I agree Greywarbler. We do need such work programmes that improve the skills of the un-employed. I have suggested in the past that the Govt. sets up a planting scheme for both native and exotic forests using un-employed youngies from the cities. It will get them away from the distractions of city life and instill good work ethics and a healthy lifestyle. The benefit would long-term for NZ but it creates good short-term economic sense. The money to do this and your option too could be just printed (not by a private Reserve either) and as the returns come back in the money is written-off (destroyed). That way it doesn't contribute to inflation.<br /><br />This has been used in the past with much success. That was how we got all the major highways, railways, state houses, footpaths etc. All done with created money but first the creation of money should be returned to the Treasury not the minions of private bankers. A friend once remarked to me that there are only two entities currently that can create something out of nothing -- God and Bankers!!<br /><br />As for Labour, I still reserve my opinion of Andy Little but things are not looking good. From 1984 onwards the economics of both parties are the same. Just cosmetic differences. And as I have also said before, for a true democracy to function it needs the two major parties to have policies that are diametrically opposite. Then voters have a genuine choice. Something that is lacking in modern policies. Bushbaptisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09657695593141243969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-56206464808380940312015-10-13T13:56:51.270+13:002015-10-13T13:56:51.270+13:00Remember this picture of Andrew Little, at the hei...Remember this picture of Andrew Little, at the height of his powers and with hair that looks real. A little time at the top of the political tree he will be grey and age considerably. And part of the stress is the gap between rhetoric and reality. We think we live still in a democracy and decry the deterioration. But we live in a still democracy, one that is moribund, comatose. <br /><br />The pollies saw that we had reached peak democracy when they wound David Lange up, ate him up, spat him out. They then proceeded to follow the new line, that the object of states is to get the community together to build assets, and then the rich dethrone democracy and divide up the spoils in a timely fashion, all the while promising jam tomorrow.<br />They hold onto an impossible outcome as a heady slogan and measure of success in their endeavours, and keep tweeking it so that it will be almost there, not possible this year because....<br /><br />That is why we are so confused about Labour. They drank the Kool-aid ages ago and now are just zombies acting within the general meme. Call<br />most pollies Jawas and you wouldn't be far off. (Jawas are from Star Wars and are the thieving recyclers and pick-pockets.) It could become the in thing to have Jawa parties. You arrive wrapped in a dark cloak and then whip it off and voila there's your Dorian Gray self underneath, the player that IS YOU!<br />(Jawas are meter-tall humanoids completely hidden behind rough, hand-woven robes. Their faces are concealed within the dark folds)greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-14535624408567944432015-10-13T13:22:23.771+13:002015-10-13T13:22:23.771+13:00There is a deeper problem than the TPPA, and that ...There is a deeper problem than the TPPA, and that is they way in which NZ has been governed since 2008. The term "New Zealand" now refers only to the wealthy and the section of the middle class whose interests accord with theirs. Paula Rebstock's $2,000 a day for her insights into herding the destitute and their children offers a telling snapshot. This is the state of affairs that the TPPA locks in. The Australian left are less exercised about the agreement than we are, even though they don't like it, because they still half believe their government will go some way toward protecting their interests within its framework. Given that the costs of not being in the agreement may be greater than the benefits of being in it, and the costs of actually leaving it greater still, Andrew Little may be right in choosing to defy the agreement's demands rather than oppose it per se. But only if his defiance goes far enough to take up the fight for those who are currently excluded from consideration. Olwynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-44244669631873882142015-10-13T13:19:41.112+13:002015-10-13T13:19:41.112+13:00Like thousands of others I will NOT trust Labour w...Like thousands of others I will NOT trust Labour with my vote again. Your piece about the deep state was right on the button. I am appalled by the Labour Party's lack of balls. chinookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04049215991064396387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-87133323796069765142015-10-13T13:16:24.129+13:002015-10-13T13:16:24.129+13:00I HAD hoped that your piece about the dark state w...I HAD hoped that your piece about the dark state would be proven wring, and that Labour would grow some balls and stand up for NZ not the corporations. Obviously the dark State got to them. Or Aunty Helen. I am appalled. I guess like thousands of others I WON'T be voting for Labour again. 1984 has not been forgotten by many of us.chinookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04049215991064396387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-11149140593992900462015-10-13T12:41:24.408+13:002015-10-13T12:41:24.408+13:00Clinton and Labour will be anti-TPP right up until...Clinton and Labour will be anti-TPP right up until their elections. If they win, what a pity it is too late to do anything about it. I'm sure we'll be deafened by the sound of their hearts breaking.<br /><br />BTW - how many people heard the 'experts' on Radio New Zealand talking about how the extension of copyright will benefit artists. One example used was that Dave Dobbyn will get royalties from Footrot Flats for longer. None of them seemed to understand the copyright is being extended from 50 years <b>AFTER THE AUTHOR HAS DIED</b> to 70 years after the author has died. Be a great benefit to Dobbyn's descendants, but won't improve is personal position a whole lot. <br /><br />If they can't get a simple basic fact like that right, how are they going to explain the rest of it?Don Robertsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07818756364561598971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-10332990198705040912015-10-13T12:30:11.173+13:002015-10-13T12:30:11.173+13:00With the heaviest of hearts, Pat, I am forced to a...With the heaviest of hearts, Pat, I am forced to agree with you.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.com