tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post2649536006261203809..comments2024-03-29T00:44:42.046+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: "Low Trust Clients" Meet "No Sympathy State"Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-7986588966490378862013-11-02T03:47:48.782+13:002013-11-02T03:47:48.782+13:00I see your point.
It seems it is tricky to balanc...I see your point.<br /><br />It seems it is tricky to balance being accommodating to those in genuine need, and disincentivizing/preventing fraud. I wonder if it would be possible to work out cost of fraud to NZ, vs cost of those that would have otherwise been on the benefit etc etc<br /><br />Incidentally, I was on the disability for about five years, and I didn't have any problems with WINZ's customer service.ShazzaTXnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-27800634432988326792013-10-24T14:11:02.926+13:002013-10-24T14:11:02.926+13:00What I mean, Shazza, is that the aggressive pursui...What I mean, Shazza, is that the aggressive pursuit of those who "defraud" the system is likely to have a chilling effect on all those other beneficiaries who might otherwise have felt inclined to claim their full entitlement.<br /><br />As anyone who has any experience of our welfare system will tell you, it is ridiculously easy to fall foul of WINZ's rules and regulations. Combine this hazard with the attitude of WINZ staff - that all their "clients" are potential fraudsters just waiting for their chance to rip off the long-suffering taxpayer - and the sharp increase in the number of people "going off the benefit" is explained.<br /><br />The thinking is exactly the same as that which informed the New Poor Law (1834). Make going into the Workhouse such a frightening and dispiriting experience that those who have done it once will risk just about anything to avoid doing it again.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16884039154534353402013-10-24T10:02:07.656+13:002013-10-24T10:02:07.656+13:00Welfare recipients can be broken into three groups...Welfare recipients can be broken into three groups. Those that are in genuine need, a significant majority. Those that maybe push the system some - they could work, but haven't gotten round to landing and holding a job, or aren't qualified to hold a job that pays a living wage. And third, those that maliciously set out to defraud WINZ. I'm under the impression that this initiative relates to the third group alone.<br /><br />You seem to say that this initiative will make it more difficult for all WINZ clients. Can you kindly clarify? ("guarantees a sharp decline in all claims")<br /><br />Would you propose an alternative policy or not address the issue of welfare fraud?<br /><br />(Not that I'm some huge fan of the initiative, I'm just looking for a more reasoned discussion about it. Ultimately, when it comes to 90% of new govt. policies, I can't help but think of the countless other initiatives that would be more beneficial to NZers,- and that most govt. policies, like the above, are simply solely politically motivated.)ShazzaTXnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-46131671448629751612013-10-23T12:31:16.324+13:002013-10-23T12:31:16.324+13:00Depends on how one defines "Majority" Ch...Depends on how one defines "Majority" Chris. Under MMP no single party can get a clear majority usually. The Gnats got the greater percentage of the votes so they got in. With Labour in second place.<br /><br />It can be confusing with MMP because there are so many parties involved. If one takes all the votes there is no absolute majority for any of them.<br /><br />Getting back to my previous response, with 47.7% the Gnats could claim a 'Landslide' under MMP. Either way they made no secret of what they were going to do and yet we still voted them in.<br /><br />In a democracy we get the Govt. we deserve.Davo Stevensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-47306210958793669642013-10-22T22:23:52.844+13:002013-10-22T22:23:52.844+13:00Actually, Davo, they didn't. 47.3 percent is a...Actually, Davo, they didn't. 47.3 percent is a very creditable result - especially under MMP - but it is not a majority.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-12221881100256988392013-10-22T17:59:14.872+13:002013-10-22T17:59:14.872+13:00Oh Dear! Look, the Gnats made no secret about what...Oh Dear! Look, the Gnats made no secret about what they wanted to do and were quite up-front about it all. Reform the Schools, reform Welfare and sell off 49% of our assets etc. yet a majority still voted them in. So we only have ourselves to blame. They got in under a "Landslide" election in MMP terms.<br /><br />Can't grizzle after they got in folks!<br /><br />Next time choose your vote carefully! Sometimes we must vote for some-one we don't like very much to keep some-one much worse out! That's called 'Strategic Voting'.Davo Stevensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-88320647593592946212013-10-22T02:35:56.638+13:002013-10-22T02:35:56.638+13:00They deserve enough to stop them from starving or ...They deserve enough to stop them from starving or becoming criminals but no more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4145377269480745082013-10-21T19:48:04.523+13:002013-10-21T19:48:04.523+13:00“Low Trust clients” hardly Social Security for New...“Low Trust clients” hardly Social Security for New Zealand Citizens as it was once known.<br /><br />Some type of universal basic income is a way around the punitive benefit bureaucracy and stigma in this high unemployment situation. Even first world Switzerland is looking at this currently.<br /><br />The tory minimalist regime is happy to build more prisons but not state houses it would seem. The 2014 election is go for broke time to restore union rights or this country will be an irretrievable basket case.Tiger Mountainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-75214445799837325732013-10-21T07:12:58.199+13:002013-10-21T07:12:58.199+13:00I'm struggling to drum up any sympathy for ben...I'm struggling to drum up any sympathy for benefit parasites. So they might have to wait a while for an appointment, tough luck.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3476892707564726992013-10-19T13:33:29.852+13:002013-10-19T13:33:29.852+13:00Same old same old Nat!s, farm fence benefit basher...Same old same old Nat!s, farm fence benefit bashers, as they and their mates get handed billions of tax payers largesse, by way of tax rots and Government handouts.<br /><br />This new regime of change, is nothing short of vicious punishment by way of victimization of not only the fraudsters, but also those who would dare claim state assistance.<br /><br />The only employment that this regime has created for those receiving state support, is in the course providers, that the state demands that those receiving state assistance, have to attend and so competitive that the course providers text their clients asking if they know of anyone on a benefit that they can contact to join their course.<br /><br />So what do we have,employment for the unemployed receiving state assistance no.What we have and will in truth have, is a generation of our youth who!s C.V.!s will be nothing more than a glossy history of how they spent their adolescence attending a myriad of three month courses.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58262282273257371552013-10-19T09:18:04.550+13:002013-10-19T09:18:04.550+13:00@Brendan; 1500 equates to a bit under 1%, hardly a...@Brendan; 1500 equates to a bit under 1%, hardly an overwhelming number!<br /><br />Tait Electronics just closed their factory here and shifted their production to China with the loss of 144 jobs. How many of those have finished up on a benefit? I don't know but I'm sure that they all didn't find another job, short or long term. Are they not entitled to some support until they do manage to find another without all the bloody hassles they they must now go through?<br /><br />There is a mindset amongst Conservatives that those ratbags should be forced to beg to survive as it is supposed to make them "Stronger". It doesn't! Begging reduces self-esteem not increases it.<br /><br />In my adult life I have never had to wonder where the next meal for my family would come from but should I have found myself in that position, I would steal too. I would never allow my family to starve!<br /><br />This whole issue is because of the Govt.'s economic policies, they could and should do more to encourage full employment but that is an anathema to a Conservative mindset. They must keep wages down and profits up!Davo Stevensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90293011717012326632013-10-19T08:50:09.954+13:002013-10-19T08:50:09.954+13:00As usual Brendan you avoid the question of those w...As usual Brendan you avoid the question of those who don't pay their taxes :-). They cost far more than 'benefit cheats'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-51259599139635390742013-10-18T23:27:46.545+13:002013-10-18T23:27:46.545+13:00Yeah,
today, I went to the Avondale WINZ Office,...Yeah, <br /><br />today, I went to the Avondale WINZ Office, in West Auckland, and between about 10:20 am and 11:30 am I stood there with a sign warning clients of "hatchet doctors", as there are some they use.<br /><br />I also handed out a few flyers to inform of the new harsh regime that is being applied to sick and disabled. <br /><br />Only after about 10 to 15 minutes a security officer of theirs came out, stood in front of me on the footpath and stared at me. I asked, whether he was not supposed to work inside. He evaded the question.<br /><br />Soon after he turned up again, to ask for one of those flyers, so I gave him one, as all info on there is absolutely true and reliable. He went back inside, and I am sure he showed the manager.<br /><br />Then soon after he came back again, to stand in front of me and note down the words on the protest sign I held in front of myself. I asked him a few things, but he went on about being from Tonga, never having been on a benefit and wanting some of the info for himself. I thought what a BS!<br /><br />Once I raised to a passerby who was interested in taking a flyer, that I am feeling harassed, he disappeared, and his manager appeared to call him back in anyway.<br /><br />That is WINZ and welfare in NZ in 2013. It is a fascist system already, where they harass you standing in a public place on a footpath, exercising your democratic right. Next come the security guards, vigilantes or whatever, that will pull you into a corner and give you a hiding!<br /><br />This is all trues stuff, and I am talking about own experiences on Friday, 18 Oct. 2013 here, all recorded!<br /><br />An affected seriously sick person who was tried to be kicked off the benefit before, by using one of their hatchet doctors!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38231888149843536162013-10-18T23:17:19.982+13:002013-10-18T23:17:19.982+13:00"Low Trust Client" therefore sounds like..."Low Trust Client" therefore sounds like a bit like "Lower Untermensch", does it not?<br /><br />Lest we forget, what these damned welfare "reforms" are all about:<br /><br />http://blogs.crikey.com.au/croakey/2013/09/22/a-lesson-from-nz-on-the-hazards-of-punitive-welfare-reform/<br /><br />http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/15188-medical-and-work-capability-assessments-based-on-the-bps-model-aimed-at-disentiteling-affected-from-welfare-benefits-and-acc-compo/<br /><br />http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/15264-welfare-reform-the-health-and-disability-panel-msd-the-truth-behind-the-agenda/<br /><br />If only more people would bother reading this stuff, we would get somewhere, and expose this hideous "welfare fascism" that is going on, albeit in "moderate" form, as "Arbeit macht Frei" according to the Nazis is not quite what this is like. It is like the draconian, punitive UK style reforms, and that killed many already also, not in gas camps, but in hospitals, in homes and workplaces.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-8648315482336951752013-10-18T21:07:36.495+13:002013-10-18T21:07:36.495+13:00"Few New Zealanders would have any idea of ho..."Few New Zealanders would have any idea of how fraught the entire experience of signing-on for, receiving and retaining a social welfare benefit can be."<br /><br />Well, no, actually 12% of working age New Zealanders are presently on welfare. That's more than 'a few' in any mans language.<br /><br />If there are 1500 recipients of taxpayer largesse every year who have abused their neighbours 'generosity' (not that their neighbours had any choice in the matter) and are now feeling some pressure to live responsibly, then I'd have thought that would have been welcomed by all New Zealanders.<br /><br />Apparently that's not the case?Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-2185888559448719232013-10-18T19:56:31.359+13:002013-10-18T19:56:31.359+13:00There's one good thing about having to wait in...There's one good thing about having to wait in a WINZ office: it's lovely and warm, unlike your home that you can't afford to heat.Fernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12706837774091073272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-46884213443183003002013-10-18T17:35:46.836+13:002013-10-18T17:35:46.836+13:00The arrogance of this Gnat Govt. is breathtaking!
...The arrogance of this Gnat Govt. is breathtaking!<br /><br />I watched Simon Bridges and John Campbell a few days ago and John should have taken that arrogant prick to the cleaners. Burrows is the same -- born to rule!<br /><br />The Gnats have caused more un-employment in the last few years and yet penalise them for being so. <br /><br />We must get rid of them before they destroy everything NZ stands for but who are we going to replace them with?Davo Stevensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30733864404977249532013-10-18T16:19:47.072+13:002013-10-18T16:19:47.072+13:00Does the Tax department have a low trust category ...Does the Tax department have a low trust category for tax cheats?<br /><br />My bet is tax cheats are a bigger group than welfare cheats.Brendonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24746353198664271882013-10-18T15:32:17.130+13:002013-10-18T15:32:17.130+13:00And you want the cold grasping hand of the State t...And you want the cold grasping hand of the State to be more involved in our lives?CarbonGuiltynoreply@blogger.com