tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post2765091657238214874..comments2024-03-29T03:41:12.499+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Revolution And Bureaucracy.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17335565422048741662018-07-02T22:18:59.756+12:002018-07-02T22:18:59.756+12:00Pat - the Socialist state monopoly capitalism c...Pat - the Socialist state monopoly capitalism countries made laws which attempted to dispossess private capital ownership (with great cruelty in the Soviet Union) - and how many of them are there now ?<br /><br />In the free capitalist world, is there not a rule of compensation paid for property "nationalized" and/or "privatized" for the intended "common good"?<br /><br />Don't you think that between plutocratic elite capitalism and state capitalism - both of which have their useful functions to be retained - "peoples capitalism" towards at least a minimally meaningful level of personal capital ownership by all citizens eventually - would over-rule and "soften" the extremities of both, and be the most humane and "socio-economically" fair and democratic of them all ?Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17304734497662325275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-18920059854513592042018-06-29T19:18:19.289+12:002018-06-29T19:18:19.289+12:00All I need to read of your answer Jens is this:
Ye...All I need to read of your answer Jens is this:<br /><i>Yes, you cannot grow (increase) wealth forever, nor is there a need for it beyond a certain point of reasonable prosperity in a sustainable way.</i><br /><br />and I don't need to read any more. And why? Because you are living with a beautiful theory that cannot stand the heat of hot reality on it which will make it wilt and die. The reality is that it is obvious that humans can be affected by the desire to accumulate wealth to a mendacious level.<br /><br />It is a feature of our species to want more than 'a certain point of reasonable prosperity in a sustainable way'. Need doesn't come into it, its the getting and pleasure in having, and if it means taking what others need, then tough titty to put it bluntly; this perhaps relating to the inbred and primitive desire to possess resources in competition with other contenders.lgreywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-7055127475091078002018-06-29T18:01:57.870+12:002018-06-29T18:01:57.870+12:00"But with reference to Nick J - to my knowled..."But with reference to Nick J - to my knowledge there is no legal way for anyone to dispossess me of my legally acquired (saved, invested, purchased?) "finite growth", and most of those countries where it was govt. policy to do so, have given up on it."<br /><br />Oh dear...seriously? is your understanding of legality really that naive?pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-50628113905951318832018-06-29T10:45:06.437+12:002018-06-29T10:45:06.437+12:00Yes, you cannot grow (increase) wealth forever, no...Yes, you cannot grow (increase) wealth forever, nor is there a need for it beyond a certain point of reasonable prosperity in a sustainable way.<br />Except of course, when in the case population growth, no effort of increased wealth creation will result in widening poverty. (?)<br />While our current (NZ) living standards might be unsustainable and impossible for the whole world, the fact of poverty amidst plenty calls for some socio-economic innovation or amendments indeed.<br />But with reference to Nick J - to my knowledge there is no legal way for anyone to dispossess me of my legally acquired (saved, invested, purchased?) "finite growth", and most of those countries where it was govt. policy to do so, have given up on it.<br /><br />So - what need is there to do anything on that here? Does not the question boil down to: <br /><br />What is more fair, constructive and preferable to overcome the problem of poverty amidst plenty - dispossession of the rich to alleviate poverty - or a universal effort in support towards at least a basic level wealth ownership creation and maintenance by the currently poor ?<br /> <br /><br /><br />Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17304734497662325275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-51378066405169316822018-06-28T16:34:37.898+12:002018-06-28T16:34:37.898+12:00I will put it simply by stating that you can't...I will put it simply by stating that you can't grow anything for ever. And I will add that when a body with power to take things away are allowed to keep growing they will take more than can be given.<br /><br />In short Jens we need a model that allows us to shrink or restrict growth in our institutions demands upon us. And I'm not just talking cash.Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43063949127160007032018-06-28T09:45:43.459+12:002018-06-28T09:45:43.459+12:00Sorry, but I don't quite get Nick J's poi...Sorry, but I don't quite get Nick J's point. <br />Yes, there is no doubt that real estate as a basic factor of terrestrial existence becomes or is wealth, when humans become aware of its limited extent.<br />But how comes that a huge majority of people in real estate rich Russia live in greater poverty than in real estate poor Singapore ?<br />The answer is in capital creation and ownership in other areas than just real estate ownership, such as productivity boosting tools and education.Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17304734497662325275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-80225022639564296942018-06-27T10:57:57.610+12:002018-06-27T10:57:57.610+12:00Nick J
I hope Jens can grasp your point. The...Nick J<br /><br /> I hope Jens can grasp your point. The money is a flexible invented concept. It is only the real estate that is wealth.<br />Cheers D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3388022026809390982018-06-27T09:36:22.790+12:002018-06-27T09:36:22.790+12:00Dave Stone...Im already tainted. I wish we could g...Dave Stone...Im already tainted. I wish we could get the RWs to respond, but the comment comes to mind that it is difficult to make somebody believe something if their salary (lifestyle or whatever) depends on believing something else.<br /><br />Jens Meder, here's a concept. Walk to your gate and measure how much land you have, then work out what you could do with it to increase production. take stock of what you would destroy in the process. You will have noticed that the area is finite, the total possible growth finite. So you grow to a finite amount, then all of a sudden the neighbour says he is entitled by dint of law to a square meter of your land per year.....you have grown it to the max....what to do?Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-55871580376852007382018-06-26T20:33:52.375+12:002018-06-26T20:33:52.375+12:00Perhaps the answer to David Stones insight coul...Perhaps the answer to David Stones insight could be by growing "more food", i.e productivity - through more capital saving, investment and ownership per head of citizen ?Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17304734497662325275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-39896129468031515982018-06-26T18:49:18.290+12:002018-06-26T18:49:18.290+12:00pat
You haven't ever had a great idea of yours...pat<br />You haven't ever had a great idea of yours ridiculed before a bunch of your so-called peers? If Labour had released its plan too soon, like 9 years ahead, or even in the last month, the National Party would be able to trash it before the election. People don't know what to believe, but the wealthy will always choose the best-dressed candidates with the nice accent, no matter what they say.<br /><br />Nick J<br />We may need to taint the food supply, us. The bees got varroa mite, even the dreaded foulbrood I think, or is that hens, and the cows got mycoplasma bovis. Upset the RWs, accuse them of not doing anything to stop the syphilis outbreak or something. Start rumours on how the border holes let Ebola slip through? Give them a sick feeling in their stomachs by direct action of not doing something important. Say, not spending on consumer goods for a day, and then threatening another some months later if something important for parents and children - and other vulnerable people - don't get the reasonable help they have asked for.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43244569440407702692018-06-26T10:17:08.671+12:002018-06-26T10:17:08.671+12:00David Stone, beautifully put. What can we do about...David Stone, beautifully put. What can we do about it?Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25392965725363831522018-06-26T09:28:25.331+12:002018-06-26T09:28:25.331+12:00@peter petterson
they had nine years
@greywarbler...@peter petterson<br />they had nine years<br /><br />@greywarbler<br />they could not be expected to have a plan for every eventuality but they certainly could be expected to have 'A plan' if they wished to lead the country....think it fair to note that the criticism they have faced to date all stems from this lack, whether we wish to acknowledge it or not<br />pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4277655716614670182018-06-25T16:34:07.119+12:002018-06-25T16:34:07.119+12:00Cripes it is a problem that Labour didn't have...Cripes it is a problem that Labour didn't have a plan for every eventuality, and a counter argument for every nitpicking sally. What were they thinking of??<br /><br />Perhaps just trying to get the general public to wake up and think about them - slogan 'Up and Forward all Rip Van Winkles'!greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-51396802965719249552018-06-25T14:58:39.930+12:002018-06-25T14:58:39.930+12:00@ Nick J
Human organisations be they corporati...@ Nick J<br /> Human organisations be they corporations or public bodies are essentially living entities , rather like a hive of bees or a termite colony. As such their natural development is to consume and grow and colonise until they either experience outside competition that limits their growth or until they exhaust their food supply. I'm afraid we are the council's food supply.<br />Cheers D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83228207036775969992018-06-25T14:41:49.222+12:002018-06-25T14:41:49.222+12:00Every one wants another diary boom but it won'...Every one wants another diary boom but it won't happen if we keep spending booms on below 115 IQ distributions. Streamline the tax system - pay your taxes - pay cash for capability sets, and quit borrowing for tax cuts. The age of austerity is over.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25181321786233310502018-06-25T14:21:44.713+12:002018-06-25T14:21:44.713+12:00They didn't even really consider success until...They didn't even really consider success until a few weeks of the Jacinda Revolution. How could they have plans? No time!peteswriteplacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474922953916383101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25411593307215098522018-06-25T14:19:04.653+12:002018-06-25T14:19:04.653+12:00Start reversing it - as much as possible.
Start reversing it - as much as possible.<br />peteswriteplacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474922953916383101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-968281048003063922018-06-25T13:21:42.340+12:002018-06-25T13:21:42.340+12:00"The eventuality they most feared, the electi..."The eventuality they most feared, the election of a left-wing government determined to return the market to its proper place, has come to pass."<br /><br />Sort of......but unfortunately one that didnt have a pre prepared plan and consequently the vital ability to move fast is lost<br />pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-12912763090592484012018-06-25T12:46:16.510+12:002018-06-25T12:46:16.510+12:00I get the feeling that the sheer cost of governmen...I get the feeling that the sheer cost of government utilizing the private sector model dooms it to failure. That may be what drives the "revolution".<br /><br />A good example of this is the constant increase in the costs of consents etc from local bodies. We now comply to new regulations every second day, RMA consents take longer and cost more. Eventually the increase in these costs will crush the ability of the consumer to pay which will lead to people circumventing the rules.....then the policing costs will increase....more costs. Eventually collapse occurs, or forced reform.<br /><br />Another example is exploding staff costs. I live in a small rural town, where we are currently scrutinizing rates increases that for several years have outstripped the inflation rate. We no longer have a Town Clerk on a top of the scale regulated salary, we have a CEO on $240K per annum. During the last three years the number of staff has increased by 20%, and the number of people paid over $100K increased dramatically. We are a small town, but this experience is replicated in such places as the Auckland Super City. The same is happening throughout the Public Sector in Wellington, I see it daily. Again consumer / ratepayer / taxpayer resistance will drive collapse /reform / revolution.<br /><br />The way we have enabled this cost inflation to occur for years has been based upon the model of true economic growth, there has to date been plenty to sustain the excesses. If we hark back to the last great deflation (the 1930s Depression) we get a better picture of what happens in terms of structural "shrinkage". Our current predicament is very different, we cannot grow out of trouble in a good Keynesian way any longer. We are about to discover the ends of growth that has tracked energy supply for two centuries, as available energy relative to output diminishes deflation will set in. A clever government would utilise this to drive a revolution to regain some authority over its mechanisms of state.NickJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-32766338110386945332018-06-25T12:11:45.541+12:002018-06-25T12:11:45.541+12:00Given the number of times I've seen a headline...Given the number of times I've seen a headline that goes something like "Treasury forecasts wrong." I've often wondered what the hell they do and why the hell we need them. :)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.com