tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post4793851612226275680..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: The Kiwi Doctrine: Upholding and Restoring Human Rights In The South Pacific.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41965617469251243842018-09-11T13:48:53.097+12:002018-09-11T13:48:53.097+12:00The reverse is of course the true, the Army is of ...The reverse is of course the true, the Army is of no value, far too small, low capability and divided to be of any use to anyone while the Orions and frigates could well have been of value to the USA and might have remained so if Muldoon had ever been interested for paying hte real money ot fit modern weapons, sensors and communication systems. Most NZ officer say modern data link and communication systems as the key to operational effectiveness, although the fact is most western naval conmunications, including ours were probably being intercepted post Pueblo's capture by the North Koreans with coding computers passed onto Russia.<br />My comment in relation to the NZ army is based on the war in 1944-45 most of all in France were two thirds of the British and US infantry proved pretty ineffective, athird would never put there head above the foxhole, another third fired immediately with any sense of direciton, only a third fired reasonably effectively and the overlarge forces were always at risk of panic and running interror back into their own advancing force wrecking the logistic train. Most of the Brtish Generals were hopeless, notably Montgommery and the British Army showed a total refusal to accept modern land war is simply a matter of attrition and percentage attrition. Churchill,MacMillan and Eden often totalled themselves on hard spirits with there favourite conversational topic the total hopelessness of Britsh land forces. in other words an effective army would have to be much higher capability people even at the level of the foot soldiers, not the hopeless unemployables currently selected who are inevitably overweight, short, have numerous defects.<br />In terms of the lack of naval capability for long range employment in the Pacific the general attitude of both the Amemricans and British was to encourage demilitarisation by encouraging western navies to concentrate on the highly scientific and largely impossible anti submarine warfare ( it was apparently sexy in naval terms but is anything but and those who concentrated on the forbidden black arts of gunnery and AA missiles generally got more satisfaction) task of protecting convoys against Soviet submarines which were probably pretty much unstoppable in real war situation but were hardly likely to have been wasted on disrupting our lines of communication. WW@ have shown that off NZ ports was the hardest place in the world to find useful trade for a U boat. Our diplomats were very keen that NZ not buy any long ranged warship or coast guard cutter or destroyer wiht nay real armament as something like the RAN Darings were probably more relevant replacemnts for the cruisers. The Navy considered the long range RN diesel T41/61 frigates and USCG Hamilton cutters many timesRobertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-31386093297405889342018-09-11T13:29:20.278+12:002018-09-11T13:29:20.278+12:00Greywarbler I note your comment about operation Ka...Greywarbler I note your comment about operation Katipo, in which apparently several times over the last decade the Americans and some others, but very largely the US Forces have made an amphibious landing of an interesting number of troops on the beaches around Timaru. Well Timaru is basically like Auckland a few defunct volcanoes from aeons ago, and therefore mainly made of very strong Basalt. Essentially Timaru is about ten square miles raised above the Canterbury Plains and forms a naturally protected naval port or landing port which could be easily defended , like all those ports along the French north channel coast. In the event of vrey unlikely nuclear attack scenario or some total ecological or eathquake disaster Timaru, Bluff, INvercargill and New Plymouth would with area of Northland be the most survivable areas. During the cold war Timaru was quite frequently visited by major navies of the world but only made very occassional use was made of it by the RNZN. I often had a look over RAN ships there, Oberons, DDGs, PBs and training ships and the crews and officers tended to be a lot more cooperative than their RNZN counterparts who were often hostile and surly, in relation to me individually and however I was percieved by the RNZN and in Remuera Road ( the massive delusion existed by mistake or MFAT fostering that I was Helen Clarks little helper over certain Anzus issues- I suppose because some Auckland female academic could never understood anything about the Navy and secondly the idea that the Russians back in the day, might have suggested some of her strategies, was unthinkable in Aotearoa, as you know the left are harmless saints who only think diffently and anyway, we are of no value, although the truth we probably are- but its mighty good real estate).Robertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-74851831948936707452018-09-08T12:13:07.011+12:002018-09-08T12:13:07.011+12:00New Zealanders don't want to take those refuge...New Zealanders don't want to take those refugees on Nauru. They are a drop in the bucket and if we accept them ten times more will follow. John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-35573154023904692602018-09-08T11:27:19.911+12:002018-09-08T11:27:19.911+12:00I hold to the principle of "non-interference&...I hold to the principle of "non-interference" on a number of grounds.<br />First, because it is very difficult for outsiders to see all the nuances of a political situation in another country. <br />Second, because if a people are not able to provide security from internal enemies, then there is very little that any outside power can do to assist them. Fiji's "friends and allies", New Zealand, Australia and Britain, and the Queen of Fiji, Elizabeth II, all turned their backs on Fijian democracy, but the key factor in the success of the coup was that Bavandra and his democratic supporters did not choose to fight.<br />Third, because forces of intervention can very quickly come to be perceived as invasion forces, even by those locals who may have been initially well-disposed towards them, with all the attendant consequences.<br /><br />It should be sufficient for the people of Aotearoa to provide for their own defence within their own territory, while upholding the principles of good government and the rights of peoples internationally. <br /><br />The NZDF, as you point out, has a very different agenda, but that does not stop us from doing what we ourselves need to do.<br />Geoff Fischerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509885628971898371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-10511571886798031962018-09-08T01:11:01.611+12:002018-09-08T01:11:01.611+12:00Delightful post and delightful picture, Chris. Ide...Delightful post and delightful picture, Chris. Idealists in NZ felt your same feeling of shock re first Fijian coup. It's all rather disgusting from then to now, but even now, in retrospect, I don't know if it wasn't deeper than hoons with guns. Those cheery Fijians taking to the hills. Very evenly tilted. <br /><br />I do wish IDEAS mattered as much to Fijians as us but, perplexed as I am, I have to give them the benefit of doing things their own way. I'm sure we are as strange to others as the 'Fawlty Towers' guy found us in the 60s.<br /><br />Though this does make me think again about Western intervention in the 'Arab Spring', the focus of my idealism then. Have we ever came to terms with how democracy comes to terms with racial and religious loyalties stronger than ideas? Summary of Africa, allowing that a lot of those countries are finding their ways through it. Definitely better than one nation Somalia. Massey played the Catholic card against Labour and won in the 20s. Brash played the race card and lost in 2005. <br /><br />Maybe a more forceful, idealistic UN. To replace the destructive empires with their exploitation. Taking from those who have and giving to those who need, via declared government policy would have caused war in the First World and thus wouldn't have been considered, unlike how it was done successfully. Which now boils up.sumsuchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133092096534660472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30926482206650098752018-09-07T17:53:37.218+12:002018-09-07T17:53:37.218+12:00Oh what a good story. You should write novels Ch...Oh what a good story. You should write novels Chris. I don't know who I would compare you to, but it sounds like a rollicking good tale could arise.<br />I don't know whether you would be blacklisted by certain personages after though. But every time I read of the scenario for Operation Katipo I get uncomfortable. And I read that Australian redbacks have settled in parts of lower South Island, along with some expensive USA human resources. Does each of these groups have its own peculiar sting?greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17887669245896303392018-09-07T16:25:19.114+12:002018-09-07T16:25:19.114+12:00So we're going to try to do in miniature, what...So we're going to try to do in miniature, what the Americans said they were trying to do in Iraq, and Afghanistan and in Vietnam? Without asking the locals what they actually want? Which may not in fact be democracy. Hmmmm – "never get involved in a land war in Asia." – or the Pacific.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58335923435357433902018-09-07T13:44:00.838+12:002018-09-07T13:44:00.838+12:00If there was only a will to do it. That's why ...If there was only a will to do it. That's why I personally say ANZAC died years ago. I'm not sure I would want modern Australians at my back. Let me say the Kiwi SAS are a different kettle of fish that the Nauruans and their Aussie bosses would find extremely difficult. How about a whole battalian of Kiwi SAS troopers, Chris?peteswriteplacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474922953916383101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-13777421776839696642018-09-07T10:16:25.758+12:002018-09-07T10:16:25.758+12:00mmm Not comfortable with this at all I oppose any ...mmm Not comfortable with this at all I oppose any interference in the affairs of other states. Your argument looks awfully like thne hideous gareth Evans R2P that has provided the figleaf for the likes of the Libyan regime change jihadi installation. Imposed solutions like these by outside armies are never durable.Andrew Nicholsnoreply@blogger.com