tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post5430372105176374833..comments2024-03-28T21:25:08.138+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: ROUT!Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-47603803960790563582014-09-25T23:08:05.136+12:002014-09-25T23:08:05.136+12:00I am disgusted about the election result. I have o...I am disgusted about the election result. I have one consolation. I was NOT born here, and have never adopted citizenship, and NEVER will, after yet another shocking display of how superficial, shallow and short sighted too many born and bred in this country are!!!<br /><br />I am PROUD to NOT be a so-called "New Zealander", thank you, I did NOT vote for Key and Nats!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-82905907102594149542014-09-24T19:03:37.160+12:002014-09-24T19:03:37.160+12:00Your right Jigsaw..an ESOL student would understan...Your right Jigsaw..an ESOL student would understand the implications of both could and would and nor would they misattribute the use of one one when the other was used...I apologise wholeheartedly to ESOL students everywhere.<br />pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41013340826100550462014-09-24T17:19:45.497+12:002014-09-24T17:19:45.497+12:00Debbie-in that context could or would are both so ...Debbie-in that context could or would are both so far off the mark as to be laughable. National never looked like being decimated in the way you described-unless of course you just chatter with those who broadly share your point of view. Your ESOL comment is beneath contempt.Jigsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906156865367357834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-76291735532633257212014-09-23T22:26:37.693+12:002014-09-23T22:26:37.693+12:00The figure of turnout as a basis of enrollment des...The figure of turnout as a basis of enrollment deserves some attention attention.<br /><br />Election's NZ estimated (based on NZ's 2013 census) that about 3,379,000 kiwis should be on the roll. With half a million New Zealander's living in Australia at the time of that census, it would be fair to think the actual number of enrollments could be much higher than the electoral estimate. <br /><br />The preliminary results show National gaining support from only 29% of the voting population. If the remaining votes follow the same distribution as election night the part will win no more than 34% of the eligible vote. <br /><br />The government is not as popular as it appears but what passes as a left wing in NZ politics has no connection with the general population at all. Labour and the Greens respectively only gained only 15% & 6% support of eligible voters while more that 99% of us wanted nothing to do with Internet / Mana. <br /><br />Like everyone else – I agree that Victor is bang on.Lozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12064567381918975446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-53801572307276563282014-09-23T10:26:00.687+12:002014-09-23T10:26:00.687+12:00Labour wound up preaching to the choir, in the mai...Labour wound up preaching to the choir, in the main because they mostly spoke in whole sentences and didn't descend into blokiness. Would probably have done better if they'd kept the awful Shane Jones, indeed, would probably be running the country by now if they'd made him their leader. There is too high a price to pay for some things.<br />And in answer to jh on the subject of John Campbell, I think he was just fishing with a very long line - watch this space! JanMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-39104974341903805812014-09-23T07:16:11.702+12:002014-09-23T07:16:11.702+12:00Maybe one of the things that Labour needs to be is...Maybe one of the things that Labour needs to be is united. Perhaps if the caucus stopped white anting whichever leader it didn't agree with, which has been going on for years now - and accepted the will of the party and got behind who was ever in charge they might begin to get somewhere.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-49663619123538960742014-09-22T21:49:05.546+12:002014-09-22T21:49:05.546+12:00@Victor
"A good start, however, would be to ...@Victor<br /><br />"A good start, however, would be to stop praising John Key for his skill in weathering the storms of the GFC, when, in fact, he failed to take advantage of optimal conditions for economic future-proofing and growth".<br /><br />Couldn't agree more!! David did poorly there along with the "it's my turn now John" subliminal but grating message.<br /><br />Labour has to re work the presentation of the CGT, Compulsory savings and raising the retirement age. These should not be major election time planks.<br /><br />Labour has to quickly sort out any leadership nonsense and start formulating a plan that constantly keeps Nationals lack of economic policy in the voters face. <br /><br />Attack mode for 2017 should start asap. Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-6252442761614031762014-09-22T21:35:50.311+12:002014-09-22T21:35:50.311+12:00Thanks for that, Fern.
I calculated my 76.4% figu...Thanks for that, Fern.<br /><br />I calculated my 76.4% figure from the Electoral Commission's www.electionresults.govt.nz site. On the "overall status" page, they set out the Total votes already counted and then "Special Votes 254,630".<br /><br />Obviously, they didn't include the 38,500 Overseas Votes in that figure (a good way to mislead people - they made no mention at all that there were extra overseas votes on top of that. I think most readers would assume, as I did, that the 254,630 Specials included the overseas votes).<br /><br />General point remains, though - Turnout was up on 2011, down on 2008. <br /><br />There are still plenty of commentators on the blogosphere who seem convinced (probably influenced by the TVNZ mistake on Election Night)that Turnout has fallen to an even more miserable level than 2011.markusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1115735230219061972014-09-22T19:23:51.682+12:002014-09-22T19:23:51.682+12:00John Key is on Cambell Live. He is saying he wants...John Key is on Cambell Live. He is saying he wants NZrs to be positive about NZ's potential to be wealthy. Thats why he "wants people to come here" and "wants people to invest in NZ", "be more multicultural". <br />How is that going to make us "wealthy". It will make developers and investors wealthy. The problem is Campbell is a "progressive of the internationalist tradition" and (therefore) programmed to ignore any negative consequences of immigration. Campbell needs to read Treasury Paper 14-10.<br />There's your rout! Sickening.jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-26408583640297404982014-09-22T16:42:43.272+12:002014-09-22T16:42:43.272+12:00My own view is that the Labour Party remains far t...My own view is that the Labour Party remains far too dominated by the feminist and gay lobbies and its general direction remains determined by the Auckland University Common Room and the ageing group one baby boomers, born before 1955 and largely shaped by anti Vietnam war activism. Also I view the Clark victories and reflecting reaction against a divided National Pary, which essentially disliked and misled Jenny Shipley and didn't see Bill English as a leader. Victory against Shipley or English who were being betrayed by half the party as was Brash, wasn't quiet the achievement, many thought. Under Key the Nats are relatively united and although devoid of talent or insight appear like ordinary NZers.<br /> The other significant talent is half the new Asian Citizens and under 27s don't vote. To me this suggests the belief that new immigrants would maintain liberalism seems questionable as the back country and working class white elements are those most likely to vote.Robert Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-10474699483871761442014-09-22T15:29:46.467+12:002014-09-22T15:29:46.467+12:00Well, we're still a Democracy and we got the G...Well, we're still a Democracy and we got the Govt. we deserve!Tim Mallorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-11963765012613620742014-09-22T14:34:00.222+12:002014-09-22T14:34:00.222+12:00Ah Jigsaw I see your still fitting the pieces toge...Ah Jigsaw I see your still fitting the pieces together where you want them irrespective of the shape...are you perhaps an ESOL student? there is a world of difference between the words could and would, though Im happy to admit the result stunned me (though Im far from alone in that), particularly in Christchurch.pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-87731332709757612272014-09-22T13:45:30.160+12:002014-09-22T13:45:30.160+12:00It seems to me that a crucial question facing the ...It seems to me that a crucial question facing the left half of the political spectrum is whether it needs a dominating, umbrella party to represent it, much as National represents the right. <br /><br />If so, then the the kind of "broad church" currently being talked up by David Shearer has obvious merit and would probably involve tacking to the centre. <br /><br />But, if not, Labour will need to work out what kind of niche party it wants to be and how this would mesh with and complement the appeal of potential coalition partners, such as the Greens.<br /><br />Should Labour be a party of the traditional Left, embedded in the union movement?<br /><br />Should it be a "rainbow party"? <br /><br />Should it be Waitakere Man's party, tribally Labour but with a vaguely centre-right policy mix ?<br /><br />Should it be a party of centre-left economists and associated metropolitan intellectuals, willing to go to the stake for the sublime rationality of CGT?<br /><br />And there will be other options.<br /><br />But, to my mind, a niche party can't be more than (say) two of the above.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-6466812958471575252014-09-22T12:10:42.623+12:002014-09-22T12:10:42.623+12:00My day is no darker today than yesterday, but it i...My day is no darker today than yesterday, but it is constantly becoming darker by the erosion by stealth of my civil liberties. Of the democratic principle. Because it is such a slow process we dont see it until it is too late. How to pass that message to the people?Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-86793622552152059152014-09-22T12:03:00.657+12:002014-09-22T12:03:00.657+12:00Interesting range of reasons given here for the le...Interesting range of reasons given here for the left's decline but really no one seems to have mentioned the fact that so many standing on the left have nothing whatever in common with working class people and it shows-Cunliffe looked jolly but still somewhat uncomfortable as did the people around him that he ran into. I think one of the strangest things was Debbie Sullivan on this site proclaiming that National would after the election be out of office for at least the next decade......how's that for getting it wrong.<br />I also wonder how much the 'terror raids' scare in Oz helped national.Jigsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906156865367357834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-76613382232874944772014-09-22T11:34:47.033+12:002014-09-22T11:34:47.033+12:00I think the argument is "Did National win or ...I think the argument is "Did National win or the left loose".<br />I see it as a dance where National's partner was up dirty dancing while Labour's partners weren't talking: "you called me a red-neck bigot" etc.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15607028751724602829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38125579069334879632014-09-22T11:30:44.682+12:002014-09-22T11:30:44.682+12:00Special declaration votes still to be counted are ...Special declaration votes still to be counted are estimated at 293,130 (12.2% of total votes). This includes an estimated 38,500 overseas votes.<br />The total estimated votes (those counted on election night plus estimated special votes to be counted) is 2,405,652.<br />Voter turnout for the 2014 General Election is estimated to be 77.04% of those enrolled as at 5pm Friday 19 September. This compares with a final 74.21% turnout of those enrolled in 2011.<br />Source:<br />http://www.elections.org.nz/news-media/preliminary-results-2014-general-electionFernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12706837774091073272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-10088464452361864632014-09-22T10:41:41.721+12:002014-09-22T10:41:41.721+12:00If they say history repeats itself and Labour had ...If they say history repeats itself and Labour had the worst defeat since 1922, when the economy was booming, then we have to wait 4 more terms before we get another Labour Government unless of course there is another World War or a real economic collapse.<br />I don't think Cunliffe should be replaced. The man worked so hard and you can't keep blaming one man for Labour's defeat. Mind you it was Key who won the election, certainly not policies because National has none. Patriciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509686441858091630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-57338668797349147012014-09-22T08:20:47.142+12:002014-09-22T08:20:47.142+12:00On the contrary Brendan, Labour has concentrated o...On the contrary Brendan, Labour has concentrated on the wants of the middle class rather than the needs of the working class. Which is why it has become irrelevant, as many of its natural constituents now don't vote, because they have no one to vote for. And as for being forced to subsidise – that's what taxes are for Brendan. And your middle-class get subsidised just as much as anyone. To listen to farmers these days you'd think that they embraced the lack of subsidy way back when instead of being dragged kicking and screaming – and they still get subsidised to a certain extent – so there. :-)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-88658933296750884582014-09-22T07:02:44.675+12:002014-09-22T07:02:44.675+12:00When I worked in a hotel someone hit a woman in th...When I worked in a hotel someone hit a woman in the face. All the bouncers (Epitaph Riders) took to him outside. One of them lamented afterwards: "you couldn't get a hit on him because everyone was having a go".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-65138379324762201042014-09-22T06:47:07.939+12:002014-09-22T06:47:07.939+12:00Re apologising for being a man. Bryce Edwards (The...Re apologising for being a man. Bryce Edwards (<i>The Nation</i>)<br />"“Absolutely, there is a wider disconnect between what he said and what the wider public think. Among the Labour Party and liberal left in NZ there are two ideologies that are really important to them and that's this ideology of identity politics and rape culture. Political threat lists or identity politics is where what you are (man or women, gay your ethnicity) is more important than what you say and do. Rape culture holds that collectively there is this misogynist attitude amongst males that enables others to rape and commit crime." <br />jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3596756428140182012014-09-21T23:44:49.383+12:002014-09-21T23:44:49.383+12:00progressive..favouring social reform as opposed to...progressive..favouring social reform as opposed to conservative ...averse to change...or would you prefer the term regressive?? remember,there is no going back on your decision.pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30933633452369850202014-09-21T23:37:33.365+12:002014-09-21T23:37:33.365+12:00I might add that the low turnout (compared to prev...I might add that the low turnout (compared to previous decades) also pours a certain amount of cold water on the idea of National enjoying its greatest victory since 1951.<br /><br />As I mentioned on sub-zero politics (sorry, a bit of 'blog-whoring' going on here), once the Final Results are in, I'd expect National's vote to comprise about 36% of Enrolled Voters and just 33% of Eligible Voters. <br /><br />When euphoric Tories start tossing around the idea that almost half of NZ adults cast their vote for National, we would do well to remind them that the real figure is, in fact, a little less than a third.markusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-27426082115486389412014-09-21T23:23:16.990+12:002014-09-21T23:23:16.990+12:00(1) "John Key leads National to its greatest ...(1) "John Key leads National to its greatest victory since 1951."<br /><br />In some senses, yes. But I should point out that the Nats may very well end up around the same percentage they received at the last Election. Special Votes should see them drop half a percentage point, perhaps a little more, if the pattern of the last 3 Elections is anything to go by.<br /><br />(2) A few commenters above have talked about turnout. I'm pretty sure TVNZ got it wrong on Election Night. They said 67.7% - which would be well down on 2011. But they forgot about the Specials. By my calculations turnout is 76.4% - higher than 2011, lower than 2008.<br /><br />Both National and NZF are well up (in terms of raw number of votes), the Greens are mildly down (about - 3000), Labour down about - 25,000.<br /><br />(3) Victor's argument that: the centre-left "must refute its opponents' claims that they're better at running an economy" is spot-on, in my opinion. This goes to the very heart of why the Left lost so badly. <br /><br />markusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-53997417866835851682014-09-21T23:21:32.522+12:002014-09-21T23:21:32.522+12:00Need to do some thinking?
Sadly, the result is a ...Need to do some thinking?<br /><br />Sadly, the result is a brutally honest reflection of what we, NZ society, have become; of what we value, or rather, of what we have ceased to value.<br /><br />This is what happens after 30 years of relentless laissez faire indoctrination and the dismantling of public institutions and discourse.Richard Christienoreply@blogger.com