tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post5649364594245215886..comments2024-03-29T03:41:12.499+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Drowning In Lattés: Why Labour’s Future Must Not Be Dictated By The “Metropolitan Elite”.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-9552039121540665922015-05-08T12:56:37.332+12:002015-05-08T12:56:37.332+12:00Jigsaw once you stop trying to score points off me...Jigsaw once you stop trying to score points off me, and read my post you will see that I said that they don't seem to know what they're doing. And I suggest you look up the word managerialism. I think it has a meaning somewhat different to what you have assumed.<br />You incidentally are a prime example. I've never seen you post anything about your normal everyday European corruption or lack of transparency. But as soon as it Maori or in there like a rat up a drainpipe. And you still have no clue as to what racism is.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-60807625459679551792015-05-08T09:43:35.772+12:002015-05-08T09:43:35.772+12:00Interesting to see the usual comments for the usua...Interesting to see the usual comments for the usual people that Maori are being 'picked on' over Whanua Ora of that they lack the managerial skills to run such a programme. Spending more than a 1/3 on admin of which a fair proportion I understand was on vehicles seems to sum up the programme -to say nothing of the $60,000 supposedly spent on an Otaki booze up. That's what happens when you base spending on racists policies. I am sure that iwi elite managed to do well out of the whole programme and will continue to do so.Jigsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906156865367357834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-69014838806942577992015-05-08T08:26:21.968+12:002015-05-08T08:26:21.968+12:00Metropolitan elite. lol. So true. Metropolitan elite. lol. So true. Simonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-19685859374422808772015-05-08T07:21:05.820+12:002015-05-08T07:21:05.820+12:00Fair enough Chris, I don't really know enough ...Fair enough Chris, I don't really know enough about the lack of transparency, but I do know that lack of transparency is a common problem in New Zealand. The Auckland District health board just made a decision to outsource catering behind closed doors. I doubt there will be a huge outcry in Parliament about that. That's just one example.<br />And you know that any Maori organisation is going to be looked over and picked over far more than any Pakeha based one, partly at least because Winston Peters plays to that part of his fan base by doing so.<br />The fact that they don't seem to have a clue what the hell they're doing I put down to managerialism to be honest. It's probably as good a take on it is any.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41982330003799907702015-05-07T19:38:10.845+12:002015-05-07T19:38:10.845+12:00Chris, I had the pleasure of listening to you with...Chris, I had the pleasure of listening to you with Willie Jackson and Rodney Hide on Radio Live at 2 p.m. today. I got the impression that with you two there Willie refrained from his usual silly comments.<br />But one comment of Rodney's got me going. He suggested that the fault of Whanau Ora was because those within the beltway bureaucracy did not want to see it succeed. I think Rodney might be right on the button with that comment. You did not follow up on it. Possibly you can use this site to do so. Your comments are eagerly awaited.Tauhei Nottshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15523429382970107699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-79234010817401479192015-05-07T17:10:27.907+12:002015-05-07T17:10:27.907+12:00This comment has been removed by the author.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-72690976929441719432015-05-07T16:28:53.264+12:002015-05-07T16:28:53.264+12:00Here we go again with the "racist". Jigs...Here we go again with the "racist". Jigsaw you've no idea what racism is.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-18033728608226482362015-05-07T14:54:03.180+12:002015-05-07T14:54:03.180+12:00Whanau Ora is not just 'an invitation to nepot...Whanau Ora is not just 'an invitation to nepotism and corruption' as you mention -it certainly is both of those but it's also incredibly racist. It applies only to Maori has been 'rolled out' only in certain areas-strange that these match up with Maori party MP areas. Surely no one would suggest that people with problems in our society are ALL Maori?Jigsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906156865367357834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45662407238429924802015-05-07T14:29:27.181+12:002015-05-07T14:29:27.181+12:00"Maori thing you tend to get "that's..."Maori thing you tend to get "that's the Maori way!" or "You're a rascist!" if you object."<br />Perhaps, but it makes equal sense to say that being a Maori thing means it gets scrutiny over and above the normal. Or at least there's an equal amount of evidence for both. :-)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-50815064510889467542015-05-07T14:08:02.754+12:002015-05-07T14:08:02.754+12:00'Labour needs to stop seeing the existing stat...'Labour needs to stop seeing the existing state bureaucracy as the answer to all of society’s problems. Instead, it must convince the ordinary voter that his/her problems can only be addressed effectively by equipping society with a new kind of state.'<br />I think you are on to something significant here. <br />There has to be a large chunk of 'average income' voters who have voted National in three elections, partly because they really dislike the metro elite they see Labour infested with, especially in Wellington. They resent their taxes going to pay that lots' high salaries, as so many of them have public sector jobs. There is also a Maori elite too, again overpaid by taxes and mostly Labour supporters. The WO gravy train has spent $40m on this elite alone!<br />So anyway, these voters will have been disappointed with National because they have not cut back the public sector elite much if any and the Maori section has clearly expanded greatly and will continue to unless there is a long overdue correction back to a colour blind state. So Chris, your new kind of state could be one where the bloated bureaucracy so puffed up with these entitled elite gets a very big serve indeed from a state trimming Labour which can thereby give this low paid group a serious tax break at the expense of the over paid public sector elite. At least that would be the pitch. Actually shrinking the state sector and Maori entitlement racket is almost impossible. But perhaps Little is the man to do it at last? Unfortunately there are public sector unions right in his way I expect. Could he defy them? Not my area.Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-68106180021835044132015-05-07T11:55:09.887+12:002015-05-07T11:55:09.887+12:00Chris, re Whanau Ora, couldn't agree more.
Pu...Chris, re Whanau Ora, couldn't agree more.<br />Public $ = public accountability.<br />There things have a long history of nepotism and corruption, and being a Maori thing you tend to get "that's the Maori way!" or "You're a rascist!" if you object.<br /><br />Whanau Ora appears to be the price of Nats keeping Maori party on board. If I recall correctly, they aren't allocating extra $, you redistributing existing ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90211228196067187882015-05-07T11:32:22.702+12:002015-05-07T11:32:22.702+12:00Bit cheeky, GS.
My objection to Whanau Ora is th...Bit cheeky, GS. <br /><br />My objection to Whanau Ora is that there appears to be no clear indication of how the Maori community either accesses it, uses it, monitors it, or controls it.<br /><br />Without that all-important transparency and accountability any sort of devolution amounts to little more than an invitation to nepotism and corruption.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-5574401831007932332015-05-06T19:13:04.236+12:002015-05-06T19:13:04.236+12:00Chris, it's not latte's. It's long bla...Chris, it's not latte's. It's long blacks (no sugar)!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-44413411973079264352015-05-06T17:45:52.751+12:002015-05-06T17:45:52.751+12:00Hmmm... Chris seems in favour of devolution as lon...Hmmm... Chris seems in favour of devolution as long as not devolved to Maori :-). I wouldn't mind some clarification on this either.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38385657572991955742015-05-06T15:53:00.659+12:002015-05-06T15:53:00.659+12:00Much could be said about this, but the main reason...Much could be said about this, but the main reason Cunliffe lost was not his personality or appearance, but simply that the Cunliffe/ Parker labour platform offered little other than a double whammy capital gains tax and offered few bribes or giveaways-where Clark always offered substantial freebies in family support or interest free student loans.<br /> Given the very high rate of student fees in the UK and relatively austere welfare state, Millibrand is offering a generous conventional package.<br /> Brash ran on blatantly redneck reactionary ticket in 2005 and the latte drinks were justified in seeing it as vicious and fearsome. While I support the death penalty for multiple murder I wallpapered the outside of my flat in the Avon Loop with Green advertising.Robert Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16318598083574780942015-05-06T13:40:28.189+12:002015-05-06T13:40:28.189+12:00Chris, you say
"In matters relating to emplo...Chris, you say<br /><br />"In matters relating to employment, welfare, education, health, policing and justice, local citizens must be given much greater choice; a much louder voice; and much more security."<br /><br />Yet most of your other writings favour a more centralised, statist approach.<br /><br />As for greater choice, it'd be hard to argue that people generally now have more choice then they ever had before.<br /><br />What WOULD you prefered government /society look like - care to give as a brief sketch?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38207625823377052592015-05-06T12:41:20.318+12:002015-05-06T12:41:20.318+12:00If Labour pursues the right wing voter, a good per...If Labour pursues the right wing voter, a good percentage of its voters will peel off to the Greens.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-54875897486412911512015-05-06T12:40:51.304+12:002015-05-06T12:40:51.304+12:00ah, another archetype to join the ‘creatures of th...ah, another archetype to join the ‘creatures of the Bar-B-Que pit’ and ‘Waitakere Man’<br /><br />macs are still cool, though Prius’s have had their day–it is expensive disposing of the batteries in expired hybrids<br /><br />the photo at top is great “together alone”, people connected by wifi to who knows what but not acknowledging the humans in their vicinity<br /><br />Tiger Mountainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-60325535246195570232015-05-06T06:27:52.450+12:002015-05-06T06:27:52.450+12:00"I suspect their commitment to a somewhat out..."I suspect their commitment to a somewhat outdated ideology is to blame." <br /><br />Neoliberalism? Couldn't agree more.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-13199202311085372312015-05-05T22:48:21.310+12:002015-05-05T22:48:21.310+12:00Labour can't get 40% + solely by winning over ...Labour can't get 40% + solely by winning over soft Tories, whatever Michael Cullen thinks - they also have to keep the rough 30% who voted for them in the last three elections. And as Scotland shows, that is never guaranteed. <br /><br />Your associating welfare reforms with "metropolitan liberals" being appalled reads like a pitch from Labour's right - associate people who are easily mocked with something you don't want to address, handily forgetting those most affected. <br /><br />In all five-eyes countries, Labour's post-neoliberal position as the establishment's HR department gets more untenable with each passing year. Those working class people who haven't gone looking for representation from alternative parties no doubt accept the welfare reforms because UK Labour doesn't seem to be offering them anything interesting, and at least it's someone else and not them getting picked on. <br /><br /> I would accept the decentralisation thesis if it came with a broad and convincing commitment to the public good. However your story of the metropolitan liberals and the welfare reforms does not make me confident that this would be the case. <br />Olwynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-2009325795084940772015-05-05T22:05:07.327+12:002015-05-05T22:05:07.327+12:00You are asking the impossible. It has taken years...You are asking the impossible. It has taken years of careful management to fill the Labour caucus and party elite with people who are of a particular ‘disposition’. They are incapable of making themselves in another image. Neither do they see the need, or have the desire to change. <br /><br />They accurately represent 25% of voters that make up their section of NZ society; probably less as there is still a hard core of ‘traditional Labour’ voters that are yet to reach the grave. I suspect what follows behind them is greener and bluer, although we may have reached peek green.<br /><br />Absent Damian O’Conner there is almost no one in the room who shares our values, or understands our aspirations. <br /><br />That said, you still have plenty to be cheerful about. National is every bit as left as Labour has been over recent decades. Either way you win, it’s the rest of us you should feel sorry for. ☺<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-8509998733735803962015-05-05T20:53:15.913+12:002015-05-05T20:53:15.913+12:00where did you get those figures for voters crossin...where did you get those figures for voters crossing over to national?<br /><br />What are the figures for people who did not vote at all?peterlepaysanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14707848102966641049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16521140617811816482015-05-05T20:23:29.272+12:002015-05-05T20:23:29.272+12:00Phooey Chris, Labours tack back to power is simple...Phooey Chris, Labours tack back to power is simple, become National - with a bit of lipstick and some red flowers in the lapel of the expensive 3 piece suits, that way once the electorate tire of National/Key, if Labour put up a safe pair of hands (think Helen Clark instead of Dangerous Norm Kirk) power will slide to the new face with the same policies. <br /><br />After all as Michael Cullen made clear in his recent speech - commented on at this blog, Neo-liberalism died in NZ in 1993, its now a term used only by metro liberal elites, National and Labour are interchangeable with the same safe core of policy - praise hail the radical center.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-74362215909224344022015-05-05T20:22:15.506+12:002015-05-05T20:22:15.506+12:00We already have 2 parties that are not dictated by...We already have 2 parties that are not dictated by the Metro liberal elite National and NZ First, its why you hate them Chris. Labour and the Greens are there for that 30 odd percent of Trotterian Metro Liberal elites who look down theyre noses at the beer swelling pie chomping socially conservative working classes whose votes they need to create utopia, but who's values they abhor.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45162438965332853642015-05-05T20:13:54.565+12:002015-05-05T20:13:54.565+12:00You'll pardon me for saying so Chris, but you ...You'll pardon me for saying so Chris, but you seem to be proposing a leap to the right which hardly seems like you.Jaysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01115615271339572406noreply@blogger.com