tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post6062285895394225048..comments2024-03-29T03:41:12.499+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: History Lessons.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-12197362856550612442022-10-02T11:09:10.535+13:002022-10-02T11:09:10.535+13:00Quote:
"As our great historian, Michael Kin...<br />Quote: <br /><br />"As our great historian, Michael King notes, in Being Pakeha Now "The truth is we all, Maori and Pakeha have skeletons..."<br /><br />Yep. <br /><br />King did more for informed historically precise Pakeha than perhaps even Belich or Sinclair. <br /><br />Certainly ... more than Kelvin could even dream (hallucinate) ... of.LARRY N MITCHELLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-53610672910148562612022-09-04T10:39:33.717+12:002022-09-04T10:39:33.717+12:00If all the polemical words*(and clearly "bigo...<br /><br />If all the polemical words*(and clearly "bigoted" ones too from both sides) ... words spoken and written about NZ race relations were distilled, it would come down to this... <br /><br />Quote CT (brill!) <br /><br />" Both peoples are the victims of historical forces too vast for blame, too permanent for guilt.<br /><br />It is high time we stopped using History as a weapon and started relying upon it as a guide."<br /><br />Wow ... Nuff said ... and in a nutshell.<br /><br />* Disputatious and controversial words or speech.<br />LARRY N MITCHELLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-59391448967210195402022-05-21T07:58:27.673+12:002022-05-21T07:58:27.673+12:00The gradual consolidation of the colonial state, i...The gradual consolidation of the colonial state, its laws and regulations, effectively dispossessed Davis’s forebears, leaving them destitute and demoralised.<br />......<br />Edward Thesiger described Abu Dhabi as "an abomination" in the 1940's; the Bedouin were "a magnificent people".<br /><br />You look at the Maori diorama in Canterbury Museum and they could use some sprucing up (by today's standard eg Adidas sneakers). But they would have had a dignity of their own.<br /><br />Imagine then when the settlers brought sheep (100,000 and 2000 cattle by 1853).<br /><br />Even my cousin from Church Bay said (some time back) how it pains him to see houses built where he used to roam as a boy.<br /><br />However in today's world this is socially constructed grievance.<br /><br /><i>All societies are diverse, but Aotearoa New Zealand is particularly and increasingly so. In that sense, it is a giant societal experiment that is grappling with marrying both biculturalism and multiculturalism and seeking a smooth path ahead that acknowledges these critical elements of its history, identity, and composition. The nation was founded out of competition for land and resources (that still required in-group cohesion and collaboration to function), including pre-European inter-tribal competition for mana, and then an agreement between Māori and the Crown via Te Tiriti o Waitangi. This sought to acknowledge tino rangatiratanga, but ultimately failed to do so appropriately.</i><br />It was never an <i>agreement</i> <br /><i> It is nonetheless generally accepted that Māori have a unique constitutional, historical, and moral position within Aotearoa. In the country’s more recent history, there has been a project to strengthen biculturalism and to enhance the mana and position of te ao Māori, while at the same time witnessing and hopefully embracing rapid multicultural shifts (Durie, 2005; Peach, 2018; Stewart, 2018)</i><br />Funny how Maori attitudes to migration "are trending down" (Spoonley) but Spoonley's crowd have their grubby hands all over the media with <i>hugs</i> from the sector that collects the rent and builds the infrastructure.John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30588825669758690422022-05-19T15:27:14.712+12:002022-05-19T15:27:14.712+12:00C- is generous, more like a conceeded D. As in &q...C- is generous, more like a conceeded D. As in "cannot go on to higher things without re-sitting, and doing better, first". Unfortunately, the tendency to unreservedly praise all things Maori and unreservedly damn all things "colonialist" is affecting even institutions that should be do doing better. <br /><br />I recently re-visited the Auckland War Memorial Museum gallery where the Maori meeting house is preserved. I was pleased to see a polite notice asking visitors to remove their shoes before entering the meeting house. A small courtesy, but absent when I first visited as a boy (quite a while ago now). Next to the meeting house is a display of the Bastion Point struggle. I was an active, (non-Maori), supporter, especially during the first occupation. <br /><br />I was struck by a claim on the display that everything was removed on the day of the eviction. Not totally true I thought, they didn't dare touch the memorial to Joe Hawke's niece. I may be getting less perceptive with advancing age, but I couldn't see it recorded in the display that a child died in an accidental fire during the occupation.<br /><br />I may be wrong, but I don't think that was an accidental oversight. The awful truth that a Maori child died in a dreadful accident, that deeply affected the occupiers, was overlooked to avoid any racist reaction. ("Useless Maori, can't even keep their own kids safe" etc. etc. etc.)<br /><br />Equally, the fact that even touching her memorial was a bridge too far for the authorities might be seen as unnecessarily humanizing the brutal and ruthless agents of the "colonialist" state.<br /><br />I think the facts that a child died during the occupation, that there was a memorial to her on site, and the memorial was left intact on eviction day, should be recorded accurately. I think it was a small win on the day of the eviction. It also marked a far, far bigger win, a seismic shift in public opinion towards favouring redressing some of the great injustices of the past. <br /><br />I think that shift is now swinging back the other way, towards saying "No, enough is enough". This is driven in part by the overblown rhetoric and dishonestly distorted version of history used by the government, and it's supporters, and unfortunately, echoed now even in reputable museums.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-21998587713821460872022-05-19T08:29:07.430+12:002022-05-19T08:29:07.430+12:00One of my cousins, a retired QC, has been spending...One of my cousins, a retired QC, has been spending some of his new-found spare time tracing one of the strands of our family. So far, he has managed to establish (pretty much beyond doubt) that our forebears were farming in The Cotswolds for several generations before William the Bastard’s invasion and colonisation of fair Albion. Robin and I are, therefore, thinking about writing to The Queen and demanding co-governance over Windsor Castle, the BBC, and the NHS. What do you think our prospects are?Jack Scrivanonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-70061129679811187782022-05-17T14:05:08.513+12:002022-05-17T14:05:08.513+12:00Chris, perhaps your apparently prescient thoughts ...Chris, perhaps your apparently prescient thoughts & comments in 2004 may help us find more common ground today. It would be interesting to hear whether any of your perspective has changed. <br /><br />https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/mystery-post<br /><br />RobbieWgtnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-40039962295620784772022-05-17T07:56:19.283+12:002022-05-17T07:56:19.283+12:00On the recent moves against, sorry, re-defining de...On the recent moves against, sorry, re-defining democracy, I'm sure that Winston will be hammering this to the full come election time. It really is a big FU to the Kiwi voters that will backfire big time for the government. Good.<br /><br />I really am surprised they've staked so much political capital on co-governance. It's never been explained how your typical Maori stands to gain from an outsized influence by a few tribal elites over urban waste, storm and drinking water infrastructure for example. Anyone? The iwi elites will doubtless be handsomely rewarded but, barring corruption and partisan motivations, there's nothing in it (co-governance) for the Maori people generally, never mind everyone else.<br /><br />David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-19360206333774147062022-05-17T07:36:10.085+12:002022-05-17T07:36:10.085+12:00Thanks for raising this Chris. It’s a conversation...Thanks for raising this Chris. It’s a conversation that needs to be had in the context of moving forward without bitterness, acrimony and racism as a nation. Many Pakeha are open to listen, learn and work in partnership. By all means, acknowledge the inter generational hurt and loss, and learn the extent to which it has impacted Māori. I’m open to be educated. I just don’t want the hostility and accusation that comes with the history. Not because it’s uncomfortable, because it’s pointless. It doesn’t move us forward and is more inclined to shut down dialogue. Likewise, tikanga is unfamiliar territory for many Pakeha and that engenders a bit of anxiety about venturing forth embracing it with open arms. Making a mistake, causing offence, mispronunciation - these are all fears that many friends have described and it’s easy not to try, particularly if the effort is accompanied by open aggression and contempt towards Pakeha by some who think we are still fighting the Maori wars in 2022. I’ve been on a marae as a guest, seated at lunch with hostile whanau who made me feel like a colonialist. It took me years to go back to a marae, and want to engage. We won’t move forward as a nation as long as this accusatory atmosphere prevails. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1156129395843181292022-05-17T07:08:42.542+12:002022-05-17T07:08:42.542+12:00Robbie Nichol struggles with the burden of our pas...Robbie Nichol struggles with the burden of our past. he doesn't know how stalwarts like Nickey Hager and <i>cool</i> people (at Otaki Camp) can just get on with life and not be affected by it.<br />He's doing his bit though thanks to RNZ helping him to get the message out<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ7wp8SCji4&t=343sJohn Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-67978336041563599042022-05-16T21:25:41.245+12:002022-05-16T21:25:41.245+12:00Kelvin and Willie and Co have become increasingly ...Kelvin and Willie and Co have become increasingly dismissive of the possibility of a democratic resolution, to say nothing of Waititi's disgusting description/denigration of democratic principles themselves as a manifestation of "caucasity". Jacinda has chimed in with the need for a more "sophisticated" version of democracy. Really? Do these people seriously think that we, the people, are willing to vote to be treated with complete distain, our votes a nuisance, meaningless.<br /><br />There's a chorus of support, in the media and among a coterie of arrogant, elitist allies jumping to their cause. Chris Finlayson with his arrogant, "we know best" comment for example: “I simply say to people, one, there’s a new regime, get with it folks; two, Rome wasn’t built in a day.”<br />“We’ve just got to leave those losers behind and move on. They don’t like tangata whenua. They dream of a world that never was and never could be,” he says. How about no Chris!<br /><br /> There's a theme here, the war on the principles of liberal democracy is part of a more general assault on the west itself; a war on it's history, it's heroes and, more disturbingly, it's people.<br /><br />http://thewaronthewest.com/<br />David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-5656047459297612312022-05-16T04:47:06.260+12:002022-05-16T04:47:06.260+12:00As our great historian, Michael King notes, in Bei...As our great historian, Michael King notes, in Being Pakeha Now "The truth is we all, Maori and Pakeha have skeletons...The point is that such historical baggage ought not to be used as a weapon by which one culture beats and abuses another. That kind of posturing, climbing on the shoulders of the past to sneer and abuse others in the present, is productive and counterproductive only of negativity and conflict". Micheal's wisdom is increasingly prescient and relevant today. Jason Barriernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-44940574705423593152022-05-15T21:48:41.724+12:002022-05-15T21:48:41.724+12:00Entirely correct
Davis didn’t reference “History”...Entirely correct <br />Davis didn’t reference “History” he simply piled lie on lie and hoped no one would notice With the rest of his politically suicidal caucus this fake race outrage will destroy their own GovernmentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-85685345287509946872022-05-15T17:07:14.297+12:002022-05-15T17:07:14.297+12:00"It is high time we stopped using History as ..."It is high time we stopped using History as a weapon, and started relying upon it as a guide." I could not agree more, but that is not the direction this government has set, particularly with its race-baiting and utterly distorted history curriculum.<br /><br />Kelvin Davis is not his four times great-grandfather whom he referred to as a victim of pakeha greed in his inflammatory diatribe. He is a modern-day hybrid of both races and cultures. It's time he learned to acknowledge his whole ancestry.Trev1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00271717267778957672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-33768327699339586982022-05-15T16:48:52.987+12:002022-05-15T16:48:52.987+12:00The issue now is that the woke left-leaning partie...The issue now is that the woke left-leaning parties (of which Labour is one) is they do not know what facts or truth actually mean, let alone use them. Under the post-modern narrative, history has to be the lived experiences with no absolute facts. If their current beliefs don't match the history books, then the books are wrong. And the definitions of words are not fixed or what you find in dictionaries. So it means that we get speeches like Kelvin's, and the media don't call him out on it. <br />No doubt they are also wondering why all those tradies and their families in the middle class suburbs (many of whom are Maori) are abandoning the left. No doubt they will kid themselves it is because they are poor racist/ misguided fools swayed by mis-information. The truth that the Labour policies are either unpopular to the middle class, who do they want to be ruled by an unelected Maori elite. Chris Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557217407223228656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90988170993073160032022-05-15T15:47:44.652+12:002022-05-15T15:47:44.652+12:00Very well put, Chris.
The hypocrisy of millionaire...Very well put, Chris.<br />The hypocrisy of millionaires like Davis who are on high salaries, with taxpayer subsidised superannuation, is quite egregious.Doug Longmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12008729336442910333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30237087178943575612022-05-15T13:44:58.290+12:002022-05-15T13:44:58.290+12:00"It is high time we stopped using History as ...<br />"It is high time we stopped using History as a weapon, and started relying upon it as a guide.........."<br /><br />Best of luck with that thought.<br /><br />There is just so much differing opinion, disinformation, distrust and outright bigotry to get through that it would be a monumental challenge for anyone to even explain how history can be interpreted, documented and universally agreed upon so as to be a reliable guide through the ages.<br /><br />Its time to jump not hesitate:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfbQOhwkP58<br /><br /><br /> Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-29134091565561193142022-05-15T12:39:57.725+12:002022-05-15T12:39:57.725+12:00I am a NewZealander (Pakeha is not how I think of ...I am a NewZealander (Pakeha is not how I think of myself), with working class English grandparents (now deceased) who came to New Zealand in the mid 20th century. I do not see anything that happened to the Maori in the 19th century as being down to my ancestors. And I believe much of our current population is also those who came in the 20th or 21st century or descended from them, who probably too don't feel like they are great oppressors/ privileged etc when we have followed laws, work for what we get and so on.<br /><br />Isn't it rather racist to group all white people together, that used to be the essence of racism- grouping people and judging people on basis of race rather than on their own merits.<br /><br />Unfortunately since it is the crown which committed injustices, it then levies current tax payers and New Zealanders to pay the settlements and so on, but I find the whole white privilege/ Paheha bad thing rather tiresome and divisive. My idea of New Zealand being speical is because it is a place where one's class and race don't matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com