tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post8643115161388177092..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Old Prejudices In New Packages.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-81266929408083426472022-10-01T20:17:14.432+13:002022-10-01T20:17:14.432+13:00This seems to be a matter of sacred values Chris. ...This seems to be a matter of sacred values Chris. Stopping migrants would be fascism no matter how locals are affected.John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-85014629348200938572022-10-01T18:06:41.763+13:002022-10-01T18:06:41.763+13:00Well let's all wait and see if Meloni starts a...Well let's all wait and see if Meloni starts arresting those whose disagree with her. Should she not, let me know how your words tasted.<br /><br />After all, we know that cancel culture is just so much nicer for those we disagree with.Gary Petersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-20644856279941352692022-10-01T15:52:37.016+13:002022-10-01T15:52:37.016+13:00Chris. I don't think I'll bother respondin...Chris. I don't think I'll bother responding to you again, you seem to be somewhat confused and determined to hurl insults – fine. If Chris doesn't bother censoring them I'll just ignore you completely. But – before I go:<br /><br />Meloni has been trying to soften her hard edges in order to gain votes. Whether that truly represents a change in her attitude I doubt – I don't KNOW and neither do you - I suspect. The proof of the pudding applies here I think.<br /><br />Personally I don't give a shit if you check my statements or not.You are simply lazily calling me a liar. In which case I'm sure you won't mind if I call you disingenuous. <br />I have never called any of those people are fascist, because I only do that when I believe they have made fascist statements. You people say this a lot, and you also say the same about racism. "Oh you call everybody who disagrees with your racist" – it's your get out jail free card for being fascist or racist I suspect. One of the three or four knee-jerk reactions conservatives can't seem to help making when someone confronts them about their attitude. That's also lazy.<br /><br />Those Dixiecrats you mention certainly were part of the problem in the south, but they became Republicans under Nixon remember? Either you were ignorant of Nixon's Southern strategy that I was referring to or you deliberately choose to ignore it. Disingenuousness or ignorance?<br /><br />Whatever – you have no particularly valid arguments, just a lot of the usual contempt that conservatives feel for people they think are beneath them. If that's what you are saying now Christ knows what Chris had to censor in the past. And I won't worry about what you say in the future.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43344502522786677312022-10-01T15:35:16.021+13:002022-10-01T15:35:16.021+13:00"I think GS needs to get out more."
What..."I think GS needs to get out more."<br />What a cogent response. Very deep – it will obviously take some thinking on my part to come up with some sort of riposte. Honestly, think over what you've contributed to the debate – essentially nothing.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-39091975625548839082022-09-30T21:15:51.349+13:002022-09-30T21:15:51.349+13:00Of course Big George may have made a mistake but a...Of course Big George may have made a mistake but another driver also told us he earnt a lot at H&H Invercargill in the 1970's<br />https://twitter.com/Meter11m/status/1575736615078883328John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-23546185578821901562022-09-30T19:04:47.979+13:002022-09-30T19:04:47.979+13:00"I do note that those most vehement in their ...<br />"I do note that those most vehement in their accusations that Meloni leads a fascist party have failed to comment on whether our current government meets the criteria in part or whole!"<br /><br />For Christ's sake, when you people give up on this hyperbole? It's all over MSN – although to be fair the people there are usually crazy as buggery. If this country was remotely fascist do you think that saying what you are saying today you would still be free? Don't be bloody stupid, you'd be in jail.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-28489751632348193902022-09-30T16:26:54.043+13:002022-09-30T16:26:54.043+13:00I think GS needs to get out more. I think GS needs to get out more. Gary Petersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-65104996088350449642022-09-30T15:08:29.506+13:002022-09-30T15:08:29.506+13:00Meloni saying "I l think Mussolini was a good...Meloni saying "I l think Mussolini was a good politician who did everything he did for Italy."<br />That was said in French in 1996 for a different political party. Yet again GS you didn't read what I wrote - another of your strawmen. People change their views, GS. Who were the conscientious objectors during WW1 who became Ministers pushing conscription during WW2? Or those firebrand activists who became conservative Ministers. <br />I could do a similar check of your other statements, but watching grass grow is a better use of my time.<br />I can't be bothered doing forensic analysis checking whether you have ever called any of those politicians fascists or something similar. I would be very surprised if you haven't as it seems to be your pejorative of choice for people to the right of you. Chris Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557217407223228656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-57676838020421042762022-09-30T14:51:29.485+13:002022-09-30T14:51:29.485+13:00Interesting breakdown here on who voted for which ...Interesting breakdown here on who voted for which party in Italian election<br />https://www.corriere.it/elezioni/22_settembre_28/fdi-sfonda-operai-insegnanti-commercianti-m5s-primo-giovani-pd-regge-laureati-4019a99c-3e9c-11ed-a7d0-8fb77372b6c6.shtml<br />FdI got votes from all groups, except students/ 18-34 year olds. Chris Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557217407223228656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-79656381091024196412022-09-30T13:39:28.773+13:002022-09-30T13:39:28.773+13:00You are on the same page as Giles Fraser.
Read the...You are on the same page as Giles Fraser.<br />Read the comments<br />https://unherd.com/2022/09/what-giorgia-meloni-is-hiding/Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15607028751724602829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-20195348459455951152022-09-30T13:01:35.884+13:002022-09-30T13:01:35.884+13:00I can see GS that you have a very selective view o...I can see GS that you have a very selective view of history. Any you set up a straw man to attack me. Notice there were two separate sentences about the Democrats. <br />The Democrats were the power in the Confederate States in the Civil war. Now what was that war fought over? After the 13th Amendment, the Democrats had to change, but the opposed the passing of it. They were the force behind Jim Crow laws, were they not? Which party did the Dixiecrats belong to? Chris Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557217407223228656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-53037828791528511602022-09-30T11:42:07.934+13:002022-09-30T11:42:07.934+13:00Chris fascist should be used as an adjective with ...Chris fascist should be used as an adjective with a noun<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME5_xJK1xYc<br /><br />The reality now is Jo Coxes + Trudeau, Biden, Ardern, Key combined with high birthrate highly religious people in the tropical belt/Asia "seeking a better life".<br /><br />Reality is the picture of rooves in the Salvation Army's Report. NZ has gone from Hobbiton to Density-Dog Kennell while Key enjoys Hawaii and Ardern is "having a wonderful time: somewhere in the Mediterranean"John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-87538717009500460752022-09-30T11:12:16.863+13:002022-09-30T11:12:16.863+13:00Well that last answer was getting a bit long, but ...Well that last answer was getting a bit long, but I would like to say – it seems to be a constant refrain amongst the right that people like me "accuse everyone they don't like of being fascist" – just because they don't like them. Of course it's complete nonsense but I do get so, so tired when I read it yet again.<br /><br />So here is a list of people I don't like who aren't/weren't fascist.<br /><br />Roger Douglas<br />Jim Bolger<br />Jenny Shipley<br />Rob Muldoon<br />George W Bush<br />"Shrub" Bush<br />Boris Johnson<br />Margaret Thatcher<br />Teresa May<br />Tony Blair<br />John Key<br />Mike Moore <br />Jeffrey Palmer<br />Keith Holyoake<br />Bill English<br />Bill Birch<br />Richard Prebble<br /><br />I could go on for hours here, and I must say that I have met very few of those people, and it's the public persona that I dislike. Individually they might be perfectly nice. Many conservatives are quite affable – until you cross them.<br />Of course now you got that list you'll never say it again will you? Hahahahahahahahahahaha – I can't believe I actually said that.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-55054133212577542962022-09-30T11:01:35.029+13:002022-09-30T11:01:35.029+13:00Good grief Chris, there are quite a number of peop...Good grief Chris, there are quite a number of people I don't like you I don't call fascist– Because they're not.<br /><br />Anyway, here's a few examples of her fascist style:<br /><br />1. She is a fan of GK Chesterton who was let's say fascist curious. He once said.<br />"‘Fascism is worth looking at ‘whereas parliamentarianism is not worth looking at.’ He was a friend of Mussolini, and refused to condemn his invasion of Abyssinia. He was also an anti-Semite. <br />She also excoriate's George Soros – a dog whistle for anti-Semitism in most right wing circles.<br /><br />2. "God Homeland and Family" was as I said, all over the place in Fascist Italy. It was a fascist slogan. And the flame she uses as a symbol has fascist origins.<br /><br />3. She has said: "I l think Mussolini was a good politician who did everything he did for Italy.” And you can find the recording of her saying it all over the Internet if you bother to look.<br /><br />4. In her youth she belong to an organisation that used violence quite extensively.<br />Also: "She puts utmost importance on consistency and remaining faithful to her political roots, worrying often about how the 15-year-old Meloni would judge her decisions now."<br /><br />5. She believes nefarious forces are undermining society.<br /><br />6. She is extremely xenophobic.<br /><br />7. She is an admirer of other crypto fascist authoritarians such as Orban in Hungary Le Pen in France.<br /><br />As to her negations, she is certainly anti-Communist, antiliberal, but we don't know exactly what her economic policies are going to be for various reasons. <br />Actually, I might take issue with the idea that fascists are anti-conservative. They are certainly keen on tradition hierarchy and authority – and their respective cultures, so they have a lot in common. After all, the conservatives supported Hitler thinking they could control him. <br /><br />And if all the Mussolini supporters have gone from her party, how come many of them still have pictures of them up on their office walls?<br /><br /><br />Her goals? Difficult to tell and I think it's a little unfair to demand this of me given that she will be in a coalition, and given that she has desperately tried to soften her image in the last few years – not unlike many extreme right leaders today. Because let's face it, actual fascist dictatorship is not particularly popular anywhere, and it's pretty naïve to expect anyone with those leanings to come out and actually say it if they expect to be in government – although to be fair it occasionally does happen. <br /><br />But I'm pretty sure corporatism will be fairly high up on her agenda. I think also that she will probably be taking basic human rights away from gay people, and quite possibly from women as well. <br /><br />The general weakness of the Italian economy and military (although it does seem to have recovered quicker than most from Covid) would certainly prevent any aspirations towards Empire but who knows, irredentism may well be on the table and you don't have any more evidence about this sort of thing than I do, apart from what she's said, and we all know how reliable far right promises are.<br /><br />Finally, why do conservatives always bring up the idea that the Democrats were in favour of slavery without mentioning Nixon's Southern strategy? Just askin'.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-11792757098562351652022-09-30T09:34:36.578+13:002022-09-30T09:34:36.578+13:00I do note that those most vehement in their accusa...I do note that those most vehement in their accusations that Meloni leads a fascist party have failed to comment on whether our current government meets the criteria in part or whole!<br /><br />As Chris Trotter said, a well reasoned comment from you Chris Morris.Gary Petersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-9590602110118311272022-09-30T07:46:15.543+13:002022-09-30T07:46:15.543+13:00I'm not particularly bothered about Italy and ...I'm not particularly bothered about Italy and think they should be free to forge their own path and culture without the EU's cultural imperialists interfering. We've got bigger problems with actual, rather than imaginary, tyranny right here.<br /><br />Jacinda Ardern has taken her anti free speech obsession to a whole new level with that appalling speech at the UN. Apparently even discussion regarding the AGW theory is subversive, to be supressed. Think about that; this is a theory we're talking (for now) about. She has fully lost it, dangerous and deluded.<br /><br />Brendan O'Neill: "Tyranny has had a makeover. It’s no longer a boot stamping on a human face forever. It isn’t a gruff, gurning cop dragging you into a cell for thinking or expressing a ‘dangerous’ idea. It isn’t a priest strapping you to a breaking wheel. No, authoritarianism is well-dressed now. It’s polite. It has a broad smile and speaks in a soft voice. It is delivered not via a soldier’s boot to the cranium but with a caring liberal head-tilt. And its name is Jacinda Ardern."<br /><br />Conclusion: "Freedom of speech is in peril. And it isn’t only threatened by obvious strongmen – like the corrupt rulers of Nigeria or the theocratic tyrants of Iran – but also by a smiling PC woman who is feverishly fawned over by virtue-signallers the world over. Ms Ardern’s UN speech exposed the iron fist of authoritarianism that lurks within the velvet glove of wokeness. From her brutal lockdown, which forbade even New Zealand’s own citizens from returning to their home country, to her longstanding war on ‘extremist’ speech, this is a woman who poses as liberal but can’t even spell the word. If you want a picture of the future, don’t imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever – imagine Jacinda Ardern putting her arm around your shoulder and telling you with a toothy smile that you’re going to have to sacrifice your liberty to save the world from chaos."<br />https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/09/29/jacinda-ardern-and-the-woke-war-on-free-speech/<br />David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-33381625376945810732022-09-29T17:59:41.703+13:002022-09-29T17:59:41.703+13:00The three defining concepts of fascism according t...The three defining concepts of fascism according to Payne, who seems to be the go to source for academics, is: <br />1. "Fascist negations" – anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism.<br />2. "Fascist goals" – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire.<br />3. "Fascist style" – a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership.<br />Now for people like GS who toss around the term to apply to anyone they don't like, can you give examples of what Giorgia Meloni has done since 2009 when she was first elected that met these criteria? If you can't, stop using the term or synonyms. Note that anti-liberalism (the old meaning of liberal) and anti-conservatism are two of the Fascist concepts. Conservatism is defined as “a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, hierarchy, and authority, as established in respective cultures, as well as property rights." Does that make Brothers anti-fascist?<br />The party's name is the first line of the country's national anthem. Be the same if a party in Australia called themselves Advance Australia. The party may have had Mussolini supporters after the war but they are long gone. In contrast, the US Democrats were ardent supporters of slavery. That became open racism until well after World War 2. One of the last Dixiecrat senators was a mentor for Joe Biden, a very uncomfortable truth for the progressives. <br />https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2019/may/01/joe-biden-and-dixiecrats-who-helped-his-career/ Chris Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557217407223228656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-37324349958699851712022-09-29T17:21:01.373+13:002022-09-29T17:21:01.373+13:00"The political slogan she is tarred with is v..."The political slogan she is tarred with is very similar to Communist ones, just with a God mentioned. "<br />That slogan was posted all over Fascist Italy – along with "Mussolini is always right." :-)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4926042775252431922022-09-29T14:34:05.525+13:002022-09-29T14:34:05.525+13:00To: Chris Morris
Great comment up until the last ...To: Chris Morris<br /><br />Great comment up until the last sentence - which was gratuitous and unacceptable.<br /><br />If I could have edited it out I would have done so and then posted the comment. Alas, Blogger doesn't give me that option.<br /><br />So, please, try again - without the insults.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-9538935335614023732022-09-29T14:24:50.938+13:002022-09-29T14:24:50.938+13:00If you doubt the depravity of late stage conservat...If you doubt the depravity of late stage conservatism A.k.a. Christo-facism have a read of this. <br /><br />https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/she-was-forced-to-travel-1-400-miles-to-abort-a-skull-less-fetus-now-she-has-a-message-for-lawmakers/ar-AA11SSX7Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-86624804291261538622022-09-29T08:42:49.243+13:002022-09-29T08:42:49.243+13:00Sorry guys, I do not see this as a tilt towards fa...Sorry guys, I do not see this as a tilt towards fascism.<br /><br />As I said, I see what the current labour government is doing within New Zealand is a lot more "fascist" than a movement and political party based on God, Country and Family. After all, do we not have at least 3 political parties/movements in New Zealand with at least one of those tenets in each of them. If they combined would they be labeled "Fascist"?<br /><br />Gary Petersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-39521721098911869952022-09-29T03:29:48.184+13:002022-09-29T03:29:48.184+13:00First performed in 1603 and 1605 respectively Sh...First performed in 1603 and 1605 respectively Shakespeare's Othello and Merchant of Venice called bullshit on you more eloquently than I could bother The Barronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-79404683066470401832022-09-28T21:04:49.603+13:002022-09-28T21:04:49.603+13:00To quote her predecessor as leader of the Brothers...To quote her predecessor as leader of the Brothers of Italy "we are all heir of IL Duce", a bit of a hint towards fascism.The Barronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1301772340318448732022-09-28T20:54:52.110+13:002022-09-28T20:54:52.110+13:00Well yes, more conservative now than liberal, GS.
...Well yes, more conservative now than liberal, GS.<br />That book (Conservatism) is an examination of the obvious pitfalls of a liberalism shorn of it's roots and the presentation of an alternative. Very good so far. David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-47264932179931118362022-09-28T16:11:29.261+13:002022-09-28T16:11:29.261+13:00It was the 1980's Lange government that rammed...It was the 1980's Lange government that rammed Neoliberalism down the throat of New Zealanders. At the time, the ideology of "the New Right" was reviled by Labour's activists as a betrayal of everything Labour had stood for. 35 years later, every western country seems captured by political duopolies in lockstep with neoliberal economics, neoconservative foreign policy with variation purely based on wokeness. Neither party is a threat to the establishment, or the trickle-down fairy tale established all those years ago.<br /><br />It's taken decades for that bankrupt ideology to fall apart on a global level but for some reason, "the left" is expected to support an unrepresentative economic system that has brought nothing but devastation to working people. <br /><br />Italy's election saw the complete collapse of the Five Star Movement, a party created as a radical, anti-establishment left-wing party. Its creation was to oppose the pro-European, neoliberal, Democratic Party. The Five Star Movement's very reason for existing disappeared when it propped up the Democratic Party in government in 2019. That itself probably sealed its fate. Moreover, with the collapsing Italian economy, in part due to the energy sanctions EU leadership imposed on member states over Ukraine, the neoliberal, neoconservative "left" has no answer or hope to for the millions experiencing financial stress and uncertainty over cascading business closures.<br /><br />The last election was the lowest turnout of Italian voters in history and the 5SM was the loser as a result. <br /><br />At a time that neoliberalism is under broad attack globally, how have we ended up with “the left” being the actual advocates for that failed system? The electoral kicking given to the Five Star Movement, just like the kicking given to NZs Fourth Labour government, could easily be interpreted as voters punishing a “left” that promises hope and delivers a failing status quo. Why should working people support a neoliberal left that long ago decided it didn’t like or want to represent the "deplorable" working class?<br /><br />Neoliberalism wrapped in Political Correctness isn't an answer to our broken democracies and failing economies but it seems to be what now defines the parties of the western left. Is anyone suprised voters want something else?Lozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12064567381918975446noreply@blogger.com