tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post9058496455527997789..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Jacinda 2.0 is "Licenced To Govern" - But Not By, Or For, Us.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41166444997980465832020-11-19T20:01:53.293+13:002020-11-19T20:01:53.293+13:00Yes Guerilla Surgeon - before you can catch fish...Yes Guerilla Surgeon - before you can catch fish more effectively than just with your bare hands, you have to accumulate some capital in the form of effective fishing equipment.<br /><br />The latest news - that there is a substantial (increasing?) proportion of first home buyers active in the housing market - shows us how capital ownership accumulation by the have-nots is being successfully achieved through our KiwiSaver efforts.<br /><br />An accelerating step in that direction could be initiated by unconditionally granting the $1000.- KiwiSaver kick-start to all who have not received it so far, from "cradle to grave", for a start.<br /><br />Some unemotional, rational discussion on the possible or imaginary pros and cons of it might be a refreshing change from just being critical of our politicians. <br /><br />Cheers - Jens.Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05669231615285213453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17242623545853000412020-11-19T17:12:22.553+13:002020-11-19T17:12:22.553+13:00GS I think my knowledge of economics is reasonable...GS <i>I think my knowledge of economics is reasonable</i><br />You are probably correct, compared to Treasury economists you are well in front. Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3193060251752880772020-11-19T10:40:13.397+13:002020-11-19T10:40:13.397+13:00For me this is the best article by Chris in a long...For me this is the best article by Chris in a long time- with the terrific razor sharp historical perspective that he is so great at. Labour may have given small gifts such as increasing the winter energy payment (by far too little) but it still puts NZ at among the bottom of the pack for benefit payments (along with the other Anglo nations). Labour folded like a wet slice of bread with CGT. And then Ardern future proofed this neo-liberal sell-out by refusing to even consider CGT during here tenure. Why should NZ continue to remain among the most right-wing nations (among the lowest taxing and spending), and remain the only developed not to have a wealth/capital gains tax? Additionally, there was no effort to counter the shocking Trump level amount of disinformation on the tax floated by the “responsible” press. And why should NZ continue what is essentially a version of the US’s far right “right to work” laws? Why should NZ be among the only nations that allow non-union working staff to attain the same benefits on the backs of those who pay dues and risk their jobs by taking industrial action? britbunkleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14135963213395623042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-29985171911518925142020-11-19T10:38:00.523+13:002020-11-19T10:38:00.523+13:00Somehow Scandinavia managed to retain most (but no...Somehow Scandinavia managed to retain most (but not all) of their rights without selling out to neo liberalism, while NZ fell over instantly without fight...and then its been one step forward and two back since the early 90's.britbunkleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14135963213395623042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-56986700973428880932020-11-18T16:54:24.858+13:002020-11-18T16:54:24.858+13:00"give someone a fish and they eat for a day, ... "give someone a fish and they eat for a day, teach them to fish and they eat forever."<br /><br />Myth. It ignores the problem why someone is poor in the first place. And it's not necessarily because they don't know how to fish. He also needs equipment, and access to fishing grounds. Neither of which he can get if he is poor. They also need decent schools, housing, and neighbourhoods where they can live without the fear of crime. They need access to cheap finance, because no one is going to lend them any money except at huge interest rates if they are poor, even if they know how to fish.<br /><br />I think my knowledge of economics is reasonable. I think you need to learn something about development economics Eva Vivalt is a good place to start.<br /><br />http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100<br /><br />Or maybe you could just look at this.<br /><br />https://okpolicy.org/thats-a-laffer-top-economists-unanimously-reject-that-tax-cuts-will-yield-higher-revenue/<br /><br />Or this – designed for laypeople.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-11040608516890029962020-11-16T21:12:52.754+13:002020-11-16T21:12:52.754+13:00Couple of answers to Guerrilla Surgeon:
"Fir...Couple of answers to Guerrilla Surgeon:<br /><br />"Firstly research has shown that the best way to improve poor people's lives funnily enough, is to actually give the money."<br /><br />This is true on the day but it matters how those people get that money. As they say "give someone a fish and they eat for a day, teach them to fish and they eat forever." We have been handing out an increasing number of fish since Bill Rowling's day. This has culminated in a number of men whose contribution to society is to sit outside a supermarket with a cup in front of them. In the UK they have reached the situation where children now get themselves out of bed, get breakfast and go to school while their parents sleep in.<br /><br />How is it that the perpetuation of this dead end is considered the kind thing to do? People need to feel and be seen to contribute for society to maintain the social contract.<br /><br /><br />"The second thing is that as poor people they will spend all of it, and 99.9% of them will spend it wisely on improving their lives. Give wealthy people money in the form of tax relief and they don't bother spending it, they don't tend to put it into creating new jobs, they just socket away. And of course people spending money is what businesses survive on."<br /><br />You need to learn some economics. Thomas Sowell is a great place to start. If people (or governments) have some money they will do one of three things: spend it (eat the fish), save it (smoke or freeze the fish) or invest it (make or buy more fishing gear).<br /><br />The third option results in more fish which can then be redistributed. Also called "growing the pie." This is what a subgroup of rich people do when you "give wealthy people", CORRECTION, "let people keep more of their own" "money in the form of tax relief." These are the entrepreneurs. Even those who stash it in the bank add to investment as the bank then lends that money out to build houses etc.<br /><br />This is the factual basis behind the Laffer curve, derided by the ignorant as "trickle down theory." If you can stand it you should listen to Mohammed El-Erian on BBC Hard Talk 14 Nov 2018. He describes this effect as it pertained to Donald Trump's tax cuts.<br /><br />Good luck with your assignment.<br /><br /><br />Hopefulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17548178832817089231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-52661726589592564852020-11-16T20:46:08.821+13:002020-11-16T20:46:08.821+13:00Thanks Chris. I see a common theme in this post, y...Thanks Chris. I see a common theme in this post, your previous post on US politics, and your book "No Left Turn." There is a basic structure followed by many (most?) left wing writers. This was first, I think, laid down in Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier:<br /><br />5% of text describes the troubles of the world and that it is self evident that these are all due to capitalism.<br />1% of text states, without evidence, that some flavour of socialism is the obvious solution to these problems.<br /><br />The remaining 94% is devoted to describing the moral and intellectual failings of those who fail to grasp these simple truths.<br /><br />NZ has real problems. 2020 is the first year in my lifetime that I can truthfully say that the rich are getting richer (house prices up 20%) while the poor are getting poorer (unemployment up but only amongst the low income earners). The left needs to contribute a higher standard of argument if we are going to work our way out of this.<br /><br />Not that I can offer any answers.Hopefulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17548178832817089231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-22239900161187876612020-11-16T17:14:09.940+13:002020-11-16T17:14:09.940+13:00Historically, a violent, armed revolution ends u...Historically, a violent, armed revolution ends up with the losing party being suppressed by force, if the winners are Marxist Socialists.<br />There were even made efforts by latter to eliminate or re-educate the "haves" altogether ( e.g. Stalinim) - but amazingly - this effort becomes too unpopular in the long term, can be sustained only by continuous brute force (e.g.North Korea), and tends to revert to mixed capitalism in a peaceful way, if strong suppression of it is not maintained.<br /><br />So, what then is the most promising future for tho "have-nots" feeling suppressed under Social Democratic mixed capitalism ?<br /><br />If Labour under Jacinda accepts achieving a 100% Ownership Society for its ultimate goal and vision, Labour obviously would govern not only for the benefit of a sectional interest of us, but for the benefit of all of us.<br /><br />The poor become also "Haves", and even the plutocrat free market capitalists can end up with a sigh of relief, that even though there might be more competition by a wider spread of capital ownership, at least the threat for them of a violent revolution could come only from a normal (insignificant) proportion of anti-social troublemakers.<br /><br />Cheers - Jens.Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05669231615285213453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16336605971119944912020-11-16T16:58:32.129+13:002020-11-16T16:58:32.129+13:00Dear DS
Regarding ‘bread and circuses’, it’s one ...Dear DS<br /><br />Regarding ‘bread and circuses’, it’s one thing for the Roman State to make a pragmatic decision to use their taxation base to subsidise ‘food for the masses’ in order to stave off civil unrest, and entirely another thing for individual Christians to freely give of their earnings to help feed the poor.<br /><br />The Jews had their own system of welfare expressed through the Mosaic law that pre-dated Christianity, so there is one example, but it is the same God providing the motivation. Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-13462904124116424612020-11-16T12:43:41.661+13:002020-11-16T12:43:41.661+13:00Brendan. You seem to have forgotten that you claim...Brendan. You seem to have forgotten that you claimed that Christianity began both poor relief and education. I mentioned as someone else has done, that the Roman grain dole predated Christianity as did much of the poor relief in China and various other places, which stemmed either from governments or Buddhist monasteries. And of course I also showed you that various other religious groups started schools long before Christianity existed. You seem to have shifted the goalposts somewhat (sorry for the understatement).<br />Yet the most compassionate welfare systems in the world are not in Christian countries so much as secular ones. America is the most Christian country in the Western world and yet its poor relief is how shall I put it tactfully – crap. And it's education isn't the best either unless you are wealthy.<br />And I have one or two friends who have had expensive surgery and dental work done in places like Thailand or Sri Lanka, who have been pretty satisfied with it – it being cheaper than paying for it privately in their own countries.<br /><br />Ricardo. I imagine that if people do revolt which admittedly is unlikely, some of them will be revolting for a chance not to have to choose between buying food for their families and a new pair of school shoes. Or even a chance to eat some bangers and mash, the price of decent sausages these days.<br />Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89577066519398816762020-11-16T11:36:45.097+13:002020-11-16T11:36:45.097+13:00"Revolution as the only viable option" T..."Revolution as the only viable option" This is so funny, it has made my day. So who do we revolt against and for what? <br /><br />The hundreds of thousands of small business owners earning 80k a year? Right up against the wall you lot. We nationalise the dairies, fish and chip shops and appliance stores. <br /><br />We shoot all the farmers and appropriate their farms. That's worked before.<br /><br />We storm the Beehive and execute the bureaucrats from Tawa and Haitaitai.<br /><br />What are revolting for? better internet bandwidth. Big screen TVs, iPhone 12s.<br /><br />I only ask that if we do revolt we get home for tea time, bangers and mash and the six o'clock news.Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05840390411136437843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-73912454418502820362020-11-16T07:31:20.489+13:002020-11-16T07:31:20.489+13:00"Although the CIA did help out the National P..."Although the CIA did help out the National Party by facilitating the production of some killer campaign ads for the 1975 general election." I have taken an interest in the Nats' 1975 campaign ads for a long time - well, since 1975, actually - and have heard these claims many times. Where have they been verified, and by whom?Neil Stockleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11049181290242914014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-87916651541968482372020-11-15T21:06:16.064+13:002020-11-15T21:06:16.064+13:00Dear GS
Well sure, if you elect to have your surg...Dear GS<br /><br />Well sure, if you elect to have your surgery in an 'ahem' non-western world hospital, then good on you. Or, if you happened to be poor in a non-western country and enjoy the benefits of their compassionate welfare system then no doubt (according to your theory) you would be just as well off as in our post Christian culture. But most readers will know where they would prefer to be poor, sick or both, even if they spent time at University de-constructing Western civilisation and being indoctrinated with its 'evils'.<br /><br />I'm impressed that you have chosen to read Dominion. It shows a degree of humility that I didn't expect. I underestimated you.<br /><br />You will discover Historian Tom Holland to be quite objective and often shows the followers of Christ in an unflattering light which may give you some comfort. I'm sure your critical eye will find faults, but it is extensively cross referenced. I'd be delighted if you let me know what you think of the book. I don't always read Chris' blog, but I do give him permission to share my email address with you should you want to contact me directly.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-33571274678963293222020-11-15T19:18:12.528+13:002020-11-15T19:18:12.528+13:00Brendan, the Roman Grain Dole predates the existen...Brendan, the Roman Grain Dole predates the existence of Christianity.DShttps://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-44539455779903716352020-11-15T14:08:24.868+13:002020-11-15T14:08:24.868+13:00Here's a link especially for GS, which I'm...Here's a link especially for GS, which I'm sure he will mainly agree with. It explains the system under which we live, Trump v Biden and how western societies operate which Chris alludes to.<br />https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2020-11-12/biden-trump-left-populism/Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-36814958639246286072020-11-15T13:22:49.753+13:002020-11-15T13:22:49.753+13:00Brendan – Forgot to say, I have ordered Dominion t...Brendan – Forgot to say, I have ordered Dominion through my local library. So I haven't read it yet, but I have read at least a dozen reviews, not all of which have such a rosy opinion of it as yourself.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43095000876402299452020-11-15T12:20:36.937+13:002020-11-15T12:20:36.937+13:00Our Brendan, thank you for your answer. I see you ...Our Brendan, thank you for your answer. I see you are in fact immune to evidence as I had hypothesised. I did provide you with evidence that other religions instituted education and poor relief long before Christianity. You seem to have ignored that. Because in your previous statement about this you are suggesting that other religions did not in fact have anything to do with poor relief and it was Christians that began at all. I see you found a way round that by confining yourself to the Western world. Well done!Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-20478726809432833242020-11-15T09:08:47.525+13:002020-11-15T09:08:47.525+13:00Dear GS
That Christians were instrumental in pove...Dear GS<br /><br />That Christians were instrumental in poverty relief and education for the poor is such an established fact that I thought you must have been speaking ironically to state otherwise.<br /><br />"Sunday schools were first set up in the 18th century in England to provide education to working children.[2] William King started a Sunday school in 1751 in Dursley, Gloucestershire, and suggested that Robert Raikes start a similar one in Gloucester. Raikes was editor of the Gloucester Journal. He wrote an article in his journal, and as a result many clergymen supported schools, which aimed to teach the youngsters reading, writing, cyphering (doing arithmetic) and a knowledge of the Bible.[3]"<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_school<br /><br />State education did not begin until 1870 in England, more than 100 years after church schools were well established.<br /><br />The history of health care in relation to Christianity may also prove instructive:<br /><br />https://www.nursing.upenn.edu/nhhc/nurses-institutions-caring/history-of-hospitals/<br /><br />Christians have been caring for the poor since before the Book of ACTS.<br /><br />Have you read Tom Holland's 'Dominion' yet?<br /><br />All the best.Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-73974236254774411852020-11-15T08:34:54.965+13:002020-11-15T08:34:54.965+13:00How can one "grow the pie"?
The "...How can one "grow the pie"?<br /><br />The "pie" is for eating, so certainly you cannot "grow" it by eating more - but by saving and PROFITABLE investment in greater (and cheaper) production capacity.<br /><br />The "cheaper" will generate more sales without giving the poor extra money for nothing- and might even enable the to save for their own wealth ownership generation.<br /><br />What other way is there to create anything without having to save for it at the expense of hand-to-mouth consumption potential ?<br /><br /> Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05669231615285213453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-27581459766144760152020-11-15T00:09:59.389+13:002020-11-15T00:09:59.389+13:00'Transformational, rark'. I hardly remembe...'Transformational, rark'. I hardly remember Ardern's rubbish from then.<br /><br />In those despicable focus groups she and Grant build their crouched backs on, couldn't they set up one where those disapprovers of meeting the needs of the desperate are then confronted with the best rational case for it? Writing that, I see the crouched backs are all Jac/Grant.<br /><br />She can win one election without addressing the concerns of the concerned but she can't do without the, thinking long about the right name, the 35ists, the social democrats, or mine from 93 the demo-cratists? The last didna take. All us who love the people.<br /><br />We seem to be circling her.<br /><br />Not having read Machiavelli or her anti-CV ( her real experience of life and political life), I just have to despise her on her regularly pronounced principles. 'Governing for All' says the final thing about how politics comes first for her.<br /><br />I understand she still has principles as a person but in that ... form, I don't care. sumsuchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133092096534660472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-61249318861274603442020-11-14T15:41:05.090+13:002020-11-14T15:41:05.090+13:00GS, yes give the money direct to where its needed....GS, yes give the money direct to where its needed. Spot on.<br /><br />On Christianity and charity I'd hazard a guess that charity predates it. That said charity is one of the Cardinal Virtues in the RC catechism, and was the primary driver of the Franciscans for a millennium. Calvin stuffed that up with predestination of the elect where being rich showed God's favour, hence no charity for the poor required. The Anglican Church gave charity to the poor through alms houses, Fabian socialism grew out of the Anglican tradition of looking after the poor. Nick Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12609312325425361413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-52334167595775209382020-11-14T14:31:48.010+13:002020-11-14T14:31:48.010+13:00DS Good to remember - and act by. Roger Douglas...DS Good to remember - and act by. <i>Roger Douglas himself also provides some pointers - act quickly, so that your opposition doesn't have time to mobilise against you.</i><br /><br />Who are the bodies making the plans for what is safe for Labour to do, AND still get re-elected by the centre? I would like to know who to hate<br />rather than spread it over those who are keen to make a big difference.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3939814540977429122020-11-14T12:40:29.837+13:002020-11-14T12:40:29.837+13:00Brendan McNeil. ‘ Let's try and retain some pe...Brendan McNeil. ‘ Let's try and retain some perspective and remember for every benefit payment, someone in the workforce has to earn it first‘. No they don’t Brendan. You are looking at government spending as being similar to a household. A sovereign government does not rely on taxes to spend. Taxes are for different purposes. Go to YouTube and listen to some of the lectures by Bill Mitchell, Stephanie Kelton, Warren Mosler et al who all explain, most lucidly, on how the money supply works. That taxes are needed for a government to spend is just neo liberal claptrap and designed to keep the ordinary person ignorant and the money class in control.Patriciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509686441858091630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-54960599614539252242020-11-14T07:54:36.902+13:002020-11-14T07:54:36.902+13:00Couple of things most people seem to ignore about ...Couple of things most people seem to ignore about all this. Firstly research has shown that the best way to improve poor people's lives funnily enough, is to actually give the money. The second thing is that as poor people they will spend all of it, and 99.9% of them will spend it wisely on improving their lives. Give wealthy people money in the form of tax relief and they don't bother spending it, they don't tend to put it into creating new jobs, they just socket away. And of course people spending money is what businesses survive on.<br />And Brendan... Still waiting for an answer on whether you still believe that Christianity is responsible for the beginnings of poor relief and education, given that I've provided you with evidence to the contrary. I'm doing an assignment on the backfire effect and your answer would be extremely helpful – either way. :)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58670828649178863212020-11-13T21:41:04.864+13:002020-11-13T21:41:04.864+13:00Putting your faith in politicians of any stripe is...Putting your faith in politicians of any stripe is guaranteed to disappoint. They are sinners like the rest of us, not saints.<br /><br />The Prime Minister has promised to "govern for all New Zealanders" not just those on welfare. Perhaps she means it?<br /><br />For those with short memories, the government increased benefits by $25.00 per week in March, during the pandemic when many business were forced to close their doors, some never to reopen. Let's try and retain some perspective and remember for every benefit payment, someone in the workforce has to earn it first.Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.com