tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post1104086137877835075..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Those Who Do Not Learn The Lessons Of History …Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-5164078708273316542019-04-02T15:42:25.942+13:002019-04-02T15:42:25.942+13:00Funny isn't it – Muslim commits an atrocity an...Funny isn't it – Muslim commits an atrocity and it's because of Islam and all Muslims are held responsible. Neo-Nazi commits an atrocity and all of a sudden he's a lone wolf and everyone on the right scurries around trying to disassociate themselves from him. It'd be funny if it wasn't such a waste of fucking time. Time the right grew a pair. They want their freedom of speech, but they refuse to take any responsibility for the consequences. Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45846830484191926422019-04-01T13:03:33.648+13:002019-04-01T13:03:33.648+13:00He was indeed a resentful working class muscle hea...He was indeed a resentful working class muscle head. Read his drivel. He says so. But that says very little. Some of my friends are from similar backgrounds and very nice good citizens.<br />And actually, again based on his drivel, he was not really a Nazi or a white supremist, although I'm sure he supports them as they have similar paranoia & goals. And he describes himself as a former communist. Now an eco-fascist wherever that is. I would have thought that describes some greens quite well. Those that directly or indirectly advocate death for most of humanity (by flood, pestilence or starvation of course) for example, which is almost mainstream green thought these days. In their case it is pure nature they want, rather than a pure race.<br /><br />No, the killer is a Breivik disciple most of all. So a ‘Euro-Nationalist’ apocalyptic extremist. They want non Europeans out of their territory, by any means. And they see starting a culture/religious/race war as one means to achieve this. They are all about ancient cultural purity myths. As mythical as Rousseau’s ideas, who’s legacy gives us the two current Green bigots. I expect Davidson and her ilk want to wipe out the offspring of the Enlightenment here similarly. Funny really because I would wager half her ancestors were colonialists. It always amuses me most activist Maori actually have a higher proportion of true colonising Christian settler ancestors than the average Kiwi. Anyway, logic and racial bullshit never meet..<br /><br />So these euro puritans Breivik & Tarrant are the exact mirror image of extremist Muslim puritans, better described as Islamists or Islamo-fascists. They want all except Muslims wiped out of the lands they see as theirs. So they advocate genocide and promote war between cultures and religions. The far left supports them cleansing their turf of Jews and Christians..<br /><br />Tarrant claims to be a pre-Christian warrior fighting Muslims ‘invading’ Europe. This is a major trend in Europe now where the far right have moved their hate to the Muslims, from others previously. What seems a strange alliance: the post-modernist radical left, a very conservative religion and Euro-fascists is not really, as it is what they hate that unites them: The Enlightenment and therefore the Judeo-Christian West, especially modern Europe.<br />Charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-85187808957477857742019-04-01T12:11:42.727+13:002019-04-01T12:11:42.727+13:00Reading the article it seems the writer has allowe...Reading the article it seems the writer has allowed his antipathy for the Greens to cloud his thinking.<br /><br />One of the good things which many of us hope will come out of this, is people beginning to face the harm that, "othering" people does.<br /><br />That is what Golriz and Marama are asking for.<br /><br />I for one am proud of them.<br /><br />Unlike Labour abandoning principles for power, since 1984.<br /><br />I hope Jacinda Adern follows through with the politics of compassion and fairness also. She has made a good start. Whether she can overcome the dinosaurs in her cabinet to do so remains to be seen.<br /><br />The rise of intelligent talented young women in Parliament, gives this aging white bloke, hope for my grandkids future.KJTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-54739906296107191622019-03-29T16:38:47.961+13:002019-03-29T16:38:47.961+13:00Reading the comments makes me realise that many pe...Reading the comments makes me realise that many people don't attempt to understand what the writer meant, they paste their own preconceptions on and give you your comment back with a twist, or pulled out of shape, or covered by one inflated word so you can't see the attempted reasoning behind. One wonders how we ever manage to decide anything of practical value at meetings. It does matter that he was Australian Blistering Attack, it is relevant. To my point not yours. He wasn't a true working class type, he had made the break with the limited vision of a stay-at-home guy in a semi-skilled lifestyle. He had crossed borders like an immigrant, travelled and looked at other cultures but not learned to understand or find anything in them to like, and somehow had his white superiority dented. <br /><br />The people he looked down on seemed, despite their known inferiority to him, been confident in their ability to order him around, and some cheated him out of something. And when they immigrated, they did well and seemed cleverer which was unsettling. It shook him and he decided they would obviously take over given a chance. And somehow he had enough money to pay for his living and obtain all he needed. And please himself. That is not an ordinary working class guy who would be off at the pub and always a bit short of the ready.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-18460354575501279872019-03-28T22:03:00.545+13:002019-03-28T22:03:00.545+13:00Gharaman and Davidson are only putting out there w...Gharaman and Davidson are only putting out there what we're all -- dense rationalisers, non-thinkers aside -- thinking, considering. The Greens haemorhaegging votes over this is ridiculous. The Coalition, sure, maybe. Don't know why you were ok with NZ First playing their cards previously, given the damage it did to the minorities targeted.<br /><br />Reality is our friend unlike for the 'friends of the rich'.<br /><br />Scape-goating is a symptom best addressed at the cause. It always helps a little to know more.I choose to nail the Irish because I know they're in the right. Doesn't effect my prosecution of'm much.<br /><br />I encountered so much unreflective racism prior to the massacre. The poisons of a hierarchical society must seep somewhere. In our old welfare state it seeped into scratches down the sides of Rolls Royces. Better.<br /><br />sumsuchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133092096534660472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-68218683469839473582019-03-28T15:55:21.888+13:002019-03-28T15:55:21.888+13:00"It is as simple as that."
No it isn'..."It is as simple as that."<br />No it isn't. He was a white nationalist and a neo-Nazi. Or as I prefer to call them – a Nazi. Let's not pretend that he's just a grumpy old working class bloke. I come from a long line of grumpy old working class blokes, and none of them have ever done anything like this, and none of them said anything to me ever about how they hated migrants. The false narrative is in fact trying to make excuses for this guy's political and racial opinions.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-13295635326730887782019-03-28T13:20:08.702+13:002019-03-28T13:20:08.702+13:00greywarbler 27 Mar 17:26
The Christchurch shooter...greywarbler 27 Mar 17:26<br /><br />The Christchurch shooter could have been Chilean, Mongolian, or Scottish but was in fact an Aussie. It doesn't matter what his nationality was. It is irrelevant.<br /><br />The fact remains he was working class with deeply ingrained working class attitudes. One of which is resentment to immigrants who with their supposedly cheaper labour pose a deep-seated threat to his own cheap labour.<br /><br />It is as simple as that.<br /><br />Talk about free / hate speech, racism, sectarianism etc is all by the by. That is the media attempting to shape a false narrative.<br /> BlisteringAttacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-86191194850259394782019-03-28T12:33:47.393+13:002019-03-28T12:33:47.393+13:00I am tempted to join Shane McD in betting you that...I am tempted to join Shane McD in betting you that Winston and NZ First will be back in 2020.<br /><br />The unsafe bet would be on the Greens surviving their self-inflicted wounds. They may be lucky this time, but would still have to survive another 18 months of being in government without falling into some other political abyss.<br /><br />Phil Saxbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-91136596820439564772019-03-27T17:26:45.228+13:002019-03-27T17:26:45.228+13:00What was the Christchurch shooter all about? a wor...<i>What was the Christchurch shooter all about? a working class drop-kick resenting immigration.<br /></i><br />But he was Australian. If it was just immigration he was on about he could well have done his dirty work there. No he was into feeling aggrieved and superior, and miffed that everything didn't fall into his white man's lap.<br />So look for a similar cohort group, then choose a scapegoat from their areas of discontent, see how to make a plan, get some purpose in life in looking for the simplest way to carry the plan out using the few skills that he has worked to achieve in his life.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4123678050732058292019-03-27T12:39:05.288+13:002019-03-27T12:39:05.288+13:00Not to be facetious Chris, but how can you take jo...Not to be facetious Chris, but how can you take jobs away from people who don't want them?Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-42062164092898069172019-03-27T12:05:44.448+13:002019-03-27T12:05:44.448+13:00Tsk, tsk Chris. You have now joined the long list...Tsk, tsk Chris. You have now joined the long list of public commentators who have delivered a eulogy for the political career of Winston Peters... while he is still breathing.<br /><br />Remember the old Kiwi proverb " Today's news, tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper. "<br /><br />New Zealand First will be back in 2020. I will bet you a Rutherford on it.<br /><br />My other prediction is keep an eye on Mark Mitchell. Bridges will be dumped either just before or just after the next election. Who will replace him ? Mitchell is an outside shot for National Party leadership... at the moment. But if a week is a long time in politics, then a year is an eternity.<br /><br />I look forward to spending your Rutherford, Mt Trotter.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02933320334462324482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-87666583255917437432019-03-27T09:05:06.837+13:002019-03-27T09:05:06.837+13:00Not to be facetious, Chris, and slightly off topic...Not to be facetious, Chris, and slightly off topic, but in reference to Guerilla Surgeon and his perceived jibe at Federated Farmers, on last night's TV news, I saw an automated apple picker machine. Ready to take the jobs away from those that don't want them...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-82808221832301942872019-03-27T08:43:53.385+13:002019-03-27T08:43:53.385+13:00It all boils down to class agitation.
What are t...It all boils down to class agitation. <br /><br />What are the 'Yellow Vests' all about? working class agitation against a neoliberal French President who attacks working conditions via employment legislation and other attacks.<br /><br />What was the Christchurch shooter all about? a working class drop-kick resenting immigration. <br /><br />It is not racism, a free / hate speech debate, the rise of so-called white supremacy etc that the media drones on about.<br /><br />The only clear headed analysis of all these events amounts to class agitation and their various manifestations.BlisteringAttacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-23571222880724456602019-03-27T06:14:51.704+13:002019-03-27T06:14:51.704+13:00Jack well said. There are so many divided and trib...Jack well said. There are so many divided and tribalism is so rampant. People fear the unknown and unfamiliar. It's actually a winning strategy over time. <br /><br />When the Normans came to England they spoke French. It took 300 years for them to use English as their primary language. Integration is faster today but the lesson is that it takes time to achieve mutual comfort between different races and cultures. To condemn racism per se is fine, but we need to address root causes if we want it to go away. Creating a victim / oppressor narrative doesn't go far to achieving that.Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-5522650136061316252019-03-26T21:14:51.258+13:002019-03-26T21:14:51.258+13:00Davidson and Ghahraman are just carrying on what T...Davidson and Ghahraman are just carrying on what Turia started. I am sure they mean well, just politically naive. I don't believe Helen Clark would put them in the "haters and wreckers" league but I am sure she would have some pertinent words of political wisdom to impart. But then they reside in a different tent.Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-55096751251671320622019-03-26T19:23:42.952+13:002019-03-26T19:23:42.952+13:00Winston and/or Shane aren't going to even get ...Winston and/or Shane aren't going to even get close to winning in Northland. No amount of pork is enough for Northland to forget that NZF allowed Labour and the Greens to cancel their road.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-40658954790528474992019-03-26T17:42:40.637+13:002019-03-26T17:42:40.637+13:00Chris, I despair of Ms Davidson and others of her ...Chris, I despair of Ms Davidson and others of her ilk pointing to Parihaka (and similar events) as proof of just how racist NZ is. Parihaka occurred more than 130 years ago. ‘The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.’ What happened was not right. No question about that. But there is no one alive today who can go back and make it right. We need to move forward and try to make things better in the future.<br /><br />From where I sit, NZ is not that bad. For the last 35 or so years of my working life I was fortunate enough to work on projects in many different parts of the world. And, sad to say, I saw ‘racism’ everywhere I went. Racism was prevalent in the USA, the Caribbean, Latin America, parts of Europe, most of Africa (not just white on black, but black on black), and great chunks of the Middle East. Even in the much-praised Scandinavia, I saw rampant racism. Or did I?<br /><br />Perhaps I just saw ‘tribes’ struggling to accommodate other ‘tribes’. Family first and don’t you forget it.<br /><br />One of my ancestors was a fisherman, working out of Hastings, on England’s South Coast. He was murdered for hanging out with fishermen from Normandy. Another of my ancestors got his comeuppance for marrying a Scotswoman. And one of my great uncles was ostracised for giving work to Chinese agricultural workers. Tribes, eh?<br /><br />I’m old. And I’m sick of hearing about what we did wrong in the past.Jack Scrivanonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1478416420226700162019-03-26T14:24:34.969+13:002019-03-26T14:24:34.969+13:00I wrote something very similar a couple of days ag...I wrote something very similar a couple of days ago.<br /><br />I'm disappointed with Ghahraman, she's fast becoming the Peter Garrett of New Zealand Politics. Davidson is a little smarter, she might annoy the more sound minds in Labour but she's also playing into the residual Mana vote and providing a point of difference for Maori that should allow the party to return to parliament.<br /><br />There's a simple fix here for Labour, rather than jepodise a 2nd term in office with infighting, let NZ First die of natural causes and stand their candidate aside in the Coromandel so the Greens return... Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00671813230716398459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4578879846323399392019-03-26T13:28:31.756+13:002019-03-26T13:28:31.756+13:00There were good reasons for questioning, and oppos...There were good reasons for questioning, and opposing, the rationale for war in Afghanistan, which from hindsight can be seen as just another bloody failed war for New Zealand. So I don't think that you can seriously argue that the left was wrong to oppose New Zealand involvement in that war. The other thread to your argument, based on political pragmatism, carries more weight. If the left abandons its anti-war principles, then it may enjoy longer periods in power. As it happens, I also tend to the view that there is no place for a principled left wing party in the New Zealand parliamentary system.<br />If Davidson and Ghahraman are trying to represent New Zealanders in general as racist, I think they are plain wrong, if not being mischievous, and probably do not deserve to be able to hold on to and advance their parliamentary careers. However we do need people with the courage to call for a change in New Zealand's geopolitical positioning. Specifically, an end to New Zealand's collusion in the anti-Asian and anti-Muslim wars of the Five Eyes, and along with that a critical evaluation of the operations and biases of the New Zealand security services.Geoff Fischerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509885628971898371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-19382100105956306282019-03-26T11:42:07.932+13:002019-03-26T11:42:07.932+13:00A very good history lesson Chris. The two Green M...A very good history lesson Chris. The two Green MPs have provoked a lot of disgust and anger by their cynical manipulation of this terrible tragedy. Their misuse of public vigils to promote their extremist views is seen as distracting from and insulting the memory of the dead they were held to mourn. Ardern and Labour's popularity are likely to surge in coming weeks which will further deprive the Greens of oxygen - they generally only thrive when Labour is doing poorly as before the leadership change in 2017. NZ First seems to be a spent force and all the indications at present are the election next year will be effectively a two horse race.Trev1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00271717267778957672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-56580807451685528722019-03-26T10:44:22.823+13:002019-03-26T10:44:22.823+13:00"Denied the option of playing the Anti-Maori,..."Denied the option of playing the Anti-Maori, Anti-Muslim, and Anti-Immigration cards, the party’s chances of surging back over the 5 percent MMP threshold in 2020 are slim-to-non-existent."<br />I must say Chris, you been getting a lot of compliments from the right lately. He is one that isn't. That is spot on. I guess it will all rest on whether Winston decides to run again and succeeds in Northland. Or if his successor has done enough bribery to clinch the seat. Not that I think Northland doesn't deserve a bit of bloody bribery mind, successive governments have largely ignored the brown and poor part of it anyway.<br />Because obviously the anti beneficiary card is a perk for Federated farmers and National. I think I'll be remembering that the next time they have a flood and farmers want free labour and my tax money.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25816636203659967132019-03-26T10:41:51.642+13:002019-03-26T10:41:51.642+13:00This may be a pivotal post about NZs struggle for ...This may be a pivotal post about NZs struggle for stable and good governnment. Thanks Chris. Realpolitik prevails over wishes and idealism.<br /><br />I believe that the meme should be both kind, and, practical. It is an attempt to be kind to women that Marama and her cohort prefaced other discussion with that about the 'c' word. The priority for the Greens now is how to get under way putting practicality first. They will lose all hope of proceeding with kind policies, (positive and future-required survival actions) if they don't knuckle under and realise the difference between being in or near the power and knocking and calling from outside on the door. (Think French Taunting by Monty Python). <br /><br />Thinking of further illustrations is the now-recognised one of agitators literally fighting for liberation, or change of oppressive government; once in what to do? A big sigh, and then the hard work of sitting down and doing the planning, listening, implementation and administration. Another cliche' - Rome wasn't built in a day. <br /><br />Greens need to do a pressure-cooker course in how to build a practical tower and learn the method of decision-making for reality; how to make lists, prioritise, and judgments as to their goals and practical outcomes. From this 'tower' they can survey the field of endeavour, and plan the practical moves to take the country forward from its egregious, neglectful, backward path.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-46656992365597870292019-03-26T10:03:00.179+13:002019-03-26T10:03:00.179+13:00Chris
You are right to be angry about the actions...Chris<br /><br />You are right to be angry about the actions of these Green MP’s attempting to label New Zealanders as profoundly racist and bigoted. It is wrong on many levels beyond just the raw politics you address in this post.<br /><br />I was thinking earlier today that there is likely a place for a new political party; The Racists and Bigots Party. There would be no speeches at their meetings, just R&B music and convivial conversation. Given the climate the Greens are creating, there would be 5% of the vote for such a deeply ironic party, especially given the lack of substance in those parties laying claim to the conservative vote.<br /><br />I do see some challenges getting people to put their name forward to be list candidates however, but it would be a legitimate reaction to the politics of the Greens. And that’s the thing they don’t understand; their attempts to de-legitimise the thoughts and opinions of people they don’t like risks producing the very reaction we are told they wish to avoid. <br /><br />As to your warning, I’m not sure this Labour government understand much history, and Jacinda Ardern is not Helen Clark. We have yet to reach peak crazy from this coalition, the present actions of the greens notwithstanding. <br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83064227380630996502019-03-26T09:43:34.993+13:002019-03-26T09:43:34.993+13:00Thought provoking again Chris, but the elections a...Thought provoking again Chris, but the elections are 18 mths away - half an electoral lifetime awaypeteswriteplacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474922953916383101noreply@blogger.com