tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post1381245000174307433..comments2024-03-29T11:07:51.893+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: A "Pessimistic Reformist" Considers The "Aotearoa Is Not For Sale" Demonstration.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-85920312546162157542012-05-06T15:15:02.293+12:002012-05-06T15:15:02.293+12:00http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0705/RMA__Oram_P...http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0705/RMA__Oram_Paper_May_2007.pdfjhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-76190444625210078692012-05-06T11:46:02.897+12:002012-05-06T11:46:02.897+12:00JH,
Do you have a link to the Oram story on Auckl...JH,<br /><br />Do you have a link to the Oram story on Auckland population growth?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />PeterPeternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89073403317747003462012-05-06T10:14:33.967+12:002012-05-06T10:14:33.967+12:00I see David Farrar gave the thumbs up to the chap ...I see David Farrar gave the thumbs up to the chap Moore's piece on the Crafar farm deal. He may even receive an invite to a barbie at Omahau.<br /><br />Meanwhile a bit of analysis from Rod Oram compared the Crafar deal to "a 100 year old Vesty family model" (which) "screwed NZ". Rod Oram also is a rare bird in stating that population growth (in Auckland) has caused a decline in the quality of life there (not that high income elites would notice).<br /><br />One thing the left (as opposed to green) doesn't recognize is that population and natural resources are seriously out of kilter and that our low birthrate and consequent population should be rewarded not penalised.<br />The xenophobes aren't necessarily wrong and while without judging the individuals who make up a population the population itself when imposed upon another population may be detrimental.jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-69476876887675389942012-05-06T09:55:11.095+12:002012-05-06T09:55:11.095+12:00The issues around asset sales are complex especial...The issues around asset sales are complex especially given the embracing of internationalism by purists on the left. When i see a demonstration led by Mana I wonders whether their solution is to invoke kaitiaki tanga of our tangata whenua as the protectorate of Aotearoa's assets, (or something)?* <br /><br />*Tuku Morgans underpants aside.jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45720174078519864522012-05-05T16:56:15.453+12:002012-05-05T16:56:15.453+12:00Quite right, "Activist".
I was a guest...Quite right, "Activist". <br /><br />I was a guest speaker, along with Bomber Bradbury, at a meeting called by Socialist Aotearoa on Thursday, 9 February.<br /><br />During the course of that meeting the idea of holding a march "like the anti-mining march" was raised.<br /><br />I was by no means the only person present who raised objections to the idea. A person who had been involved in the anti-mining march told the meeting that it took six months to organise and cost Greenpeace $90,000. <br /><br />My objection then, as now, was that calling a march over asset sales was extremely risky. If it failed to match the Greenpeace exercise it could actually end up being counter-productive.<br /><br />I came away from the meeting with serious misgivings. It appeared to me that there was already a clear intention on the part of a minority of those present to go ahead and organise a march irrespective of people's objections.<br /><br />And so it proved. The march was organised and, as predicted, it fell well short of the anti-mining march's numbers. Last Saturday's 8,000-strong march was woefully shy of Greenpeace's 50,000, just as yesterday's 5,000 in Parliament Grounds were embarrassingly short of the F&S Hikoi's 25,000.<br /><br />Those responsible for this exercise have done the whole anti-asset-sale cause a huge disservice. They have clearly demonstrated to the Government that while 2/3 to 3/4 of New Zealanders may SAY they're opposed to asset sales, only a much smaller, left-leaning, percentage of the population feels sufficently strong enough about the issue to put their feet on the streets in protest. <br /><br />Not only have the organisers done that, but they have also, almost certainly, undermined the signature-gathering exercise preparatory to a Citizens Initiated Referendum on asset sales - which promised to be a much more effective method of stopping them than street demonstrations.<br /><br />So, here we are, nearly three months later, in the very situation that I and many others present at the February meeting feared. Events have proved our misgivings to be entirely justified. <br /><br />Summing up this debacle in the hope that future activists will not repeat the ANFS Hikoi's mistakes was the very least I could do.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25366915032701664542012-05-05T14:42:11.420+12:002012-05-05T14:42:11.420+12:00The worst sort of commentary chris. Self-serving.
...The worst sort of commentary chris. Self-serving.<br /><br />You should let your readers know that you opposed naming a date for an anti-privatisation march at the first Aotearoa is Not for Sale meeting.<br /><br />Now you have to justify this original position to (yourself?) the movement. You do yourself a disservice with this sort of self-justifying nonsense in the wake of significant mass protest. you got it wrong and that is that.activistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-74822561908986454282012-05-05T01:21:33.687+12:002012-05-05T01:21:33.687+12:00@Alex - Yes, polls say 2/3 to 3/4 are against asse...@Alex - Yes, polls say 2/3 to 3/4 are against asset sales. Yet National still got almost 50% of the vote, and only a small number of people turned out for the protest march. If people answer a poll saying one thing, but their actions say another, which do you believe?<br /><br />This march gave people an opportunity (their second including the general election) to speak out against partial asset sales. And as happened in the election, very few people chose to take it. Yes polls say people are opposed. But if people's actions are to vote for it, to not bother marching against it, then it becomes harder and harder to claim strong opposition. Chris is completely correct that the very modest turnout at this march has handed an argument to the pro-Asset Sales side.Thanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12131215180965582008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90121080271391368882012-05-04T19:32:48.675+12:002012-05-04T19:32:48.675+12:00@ Chris - Opinion polls in the lead up to the elec...@ Chris - Opinion polls in the lead up to the election suggested more than two thirds of the country were against asset sales. <br /><br />Plus, you could argue that support is growing. 5000 at least in Wellington today, and the Green Party alone collected more than 1500 signatures. Like I said, there is a long way to go, but there is some good early momentum.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756577987173700191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-82903360621630788552012-05-04T09:31:28.028+12:002012-05-04T09:31:28.028+12:00I hope you're right, Alex. Personally, I have ...I hope you're right, Alex. Personally, I have my doubts. <br /><br />The groups behind the petition are already over-extended (with the possible exception of Grey Power) and the collection of 307,000 signatures requires an intense focus. <br /><br />I have worrying memories of Jim Anderton's attempt to use this legislation to save the state-owned forests. In spite of driving his Alliance volunteers like galley-slaves to meet the target, he failed.<br /><br />Unless CIR signature-gathering exercises are able to instantly tap into deep-seated social prejudices, or are the result of flagrant government assaults on the public's sensibilities (e.g. the anti-smacking CIR) the signatures tend to peter-out at somewhere around the 150,000 mark - less than half of what's needed.<br /><br />Maybe this one will prove me wrong, but the fact that 50,000 people didn't answer the call to march on 28/4 leads me to suspect that Reality is not about to correct my gloomy prognosticationsChris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-60673738500557242532012-05-03T22:36:57.979+12:002012-05-03T22:36:57.979+12:00We'll see how successful the movement is once ...We'll see how successful the movement is once the petition campaign is underway. I think you will find that the government will have a hard time ignoring the views of hundreds of thousands of people if they decide to sign. The campaign will not stand or fall simply on the back of one march. This has a long way to run yet.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13756577987173700191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-21980480684906882592012-05-03T21:15:01.597+12:002012-05-03T21:15:01.597+12:00Fair enough, TM!
I'm the first to concede th...Fair enough, TM! <br /><br />I'm the first to concede that there is a lot of very interesting creative work emerging from the anti-asset sales movement.<br /><br />Some of the posters advertising the Auckland march - the McCahon take-off especially - were extremely effective.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-21935888145220450202012-05-03T17:00:16.136+12:002012-05-03T17:00:16.136+12:00Cheap shot? I did not cite columnists... heh. No n...Cheap shot? I did not cite columnists... heh. No no no, yes. Our valued left supporting intellectuals are a great asset but in a tight spot are often prone to squiggle about.<br /><br />Summation: <br />CT-Auckland action was counter productive<br /><br />TM-under prepared to deliver in Orcland, but has had a positive local organising effect in smaller centres for the future.Tiger Mountainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17004300395119538872012-05-03T15:55:37.821+12:002012-05-03T15:55:37.821+12:00I'm not so sure about that, Tiger Mountain. Ha...I'm not so sure about that, Tiger Mountain. Had the turnout been huge, I think you would be right - the referendum petition would have taken off. But, the comparatively low turnout (for a policy supposedly opposed by 2/3 to 3/4 of the population) may actually end up demoralising the petitioners. If people had to work that hard for 8,000 marchers, how much harder are they going to have to work for 307,000 signatures?<br /><br />And, hey, what's with the "vacillating academic" cheap-shot? This is a serious attempt at critiquing an important left-wing initiative. Or isn't that permitted in the world of the triumphantly optimistic will?Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-78371425588553659182012-05-03T14:14:51.417+12:002012-05-03T14:14:51.417+12:00The ‘usual suspects’ might swallow (and enjoy) thi...The ‘usual suspects’ might swallow (and enjoy) this account typical of the academics tendency for vacillation Chris, but there is more to this story. It is about the resurgence of grass roots political activity.<br /><br />The Hikoi is largely a Te Mana (plus marginally Greens) and small hard left party driven event. Run on a best endeavour basis with minimal resources. Labour, Greens, various unions and Grey Power signed up to support the Auckland march, but in reality at executive level, and did not majorly promote membership involvement. Oh dear how sad.<br /><br />After the necessary by-electoral scrabbling about in Te Tai Tokerau Mana has jumped the first hurdle and become a national movement with branches all over, not just an electoral organisation. As the hikoi moves down the country hundreds of people, many young are turning out in the smaller centres each day. Check out Te Mana on FB.<br /><br />The Auckland demo and hikoi will ultimately assist the petition profile for a referendum on asset sales. The mining march was obviously a high water mark, and the wharfies support magnificent which had a significant effect. But numbers aren’t all. 200 of us marched to support the H Block hunger strikers in the pouring rain up Queen St one night after Bobby Sands demise, abused all the way, and I would not have had it any other way.Tiger Mountainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-74649997200823174232012-05-03T14:13:40.196+12:002012-05-03T14:13:40.196+12:00Well, Alwyn, the Police sergeant I spoke to put th...Well, Alwyn, the Police sergeant I spoke to put the number of marchers at around 6,000 - which was also the number most of the people I spoke to volunteered.<br /><br />Not that it really matters. Whether it was 2,000 or 8,000, the number was much, much smaller than the 50,000+ who took part in the Greenpeace march of 1/5/10.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-72697914344962209022012-05-03T13:38:10.226+12:002012-05-03T13:38:10.226+12:00An interesting article Chris but I'm afraid re...An interesting article Chris but I'm afraid repeating the mantra 6,000 - 8,000 half a dozen times doesn't make it true.<br />The real number was not very much more than 2,000. On this I think the police got it about right.Alwynnoreply@blogger.com