tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post1917782456105748284..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: New Zealand’s Only Middle Eastern Exit Strategy – Leave Now.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-517776506706559582016-11-12T10:26:29.221+13:002016-11-12T10:26:29.221+13:00Oh so wrong Charles. Neoliberal policies have led ...Oh so wrong Charles. Neoliberal policies have led to high inequality, low productivity, and high debt. This is directly fuelling the right wing nutcases that are electing fascist/racist parties you seem so fond of all over Europe, and in the US.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4375833629188245392016-11-11T17:05:00.951+13:002016-11-11T17:05:00.951+13:00http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/iraq-forces-to...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/iraq-forces-torture-allegations_us_5824689ee4b0e80b02cee221?utm_hp_ref=human-rights<br /><br />And here we go. Just making the point that my predictions on the Middle East are a damn sight better than Wayne's. :-)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-12573486670816999532016-11-10T17:18:17.144+13:002016-11-10T17:18:17.144+13:00What you say is well behind the times. Try to keep...What you say is well behind the times. Try to keep up with what has happened in the last eight years. Keynesian economics have led to vast public debt Chris and so that is or is likely to prove to be a disaster. So at a certain point his theory does not work as we have seen: Governments have been spending vastly to stimulate flagging economies, to no avail. Look at Japan with it's world record national debt cf GDP, and many other countries, similar. NZ less so than most thanks to Mr B English for many years now, one of the most successful Finance Ministers anywhere any time.<br />So I maintain that if here today Keynes would have come up with a new idea, as the facts have changed. You are the nincompoop, stuck in the 70s.Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-66265856096708914252016-11-05T20:37:12.217+13:002016-11-05T20:37:12.217+13:00Take that back! Global Research rather.
D J STake that back! Global Research rather.<br />D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-22483339817116719272016-11-05T20:33:43.237+13:002016-11-05T20:33:43.237+13:00Congratulations on having this printed in CounterP...Congratulations on having this printed in CounterPunch Chris<br />Cheers David J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43886285432114294192016-11-05T16:54:34.587+13:002016-11-05T16:54:34.587+13:00By the way, Chris, I genuinely would like to know ...By the way, Chris, I genuinely would like to know precisely what information has made you change your mind over Syria and/or Iraq.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43160227797629183812016-11-05T07:45:17.835+13:002016-11-05T07:45:17.835+13:00And, as we find out yesterday we are increasing ou...And, as we find out yesterday we are increasing our commitment. When will they ever learn. Rhetorical question – probably never.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-33485878016916140242016-11-04T13:36:57.880+13:002016-11-04T13:36:57.880+13:00To be fair to both Keynes and his critics, the sta...To be fair to both Keynes and his critics, the stagflation of the 70s was caused in part by oil (and other commodity) price hikes, which made it more difficult than usual to spend your way out of the doldrums. <br /><br />But oil prices go up and, a few years later, they come down. It's happened time and time again since the 1970s. Yet we're still saddled with the malign and silly intellectual counter-revolution of those years.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17774709285252289352016-11-04T11:34:08.029+13:002016-11-04T11:34:08.029+13:00Oh dear, Charles, and we were getting on so well.
...Oh dear, Charles, and we were getting on so well.<br /><br />Just when I was tempted to believe that Charles E really wasn't such a nincompoop after all you come out with something like Keynes' "economics have proved a disaster".<br /><br />This is simply untrue - as others have pointed out. The Keynesian era saw the most sustained and rapid growth in ordinary people's living standards in human history.<br /><br />And, before you blame "stagflation" on Keynesian economics, I would point out that the economic crisis of the 1970s was the result of politicians NOT following Keynesian economic theory. <br /><br />In essence the Keynesian model boils down to "In good times build surpluses. In bad times run deficits." Unfortunately, politicians find it almost impossible to refrain from boosting spending and/or cutting taxes when the economy is booming - thereby igniting inflation and leaving the economy vulnerable to the next economic shock.<br /><br />New Zealand was very fortunate to have an intelligent Keynesian as Minister of Finance between 1999 and 2008. Michael Cullen's substantial surpluses allowed NZ to weather the GFC better than nearly any other country in the OECD.<br /><br />Please try to keep your free-market knee-jerks under control Charles - they do nothing for your credibility.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25470170710204397862016-11-04T09:42:03.855+13:002016-11-04T09:42:03.855+13:00Charles E
I thank my good fortune that I grew up ...Charles E<br /><br />I thank my good fortune that I grew up in a world dominated by Keynesian thought.<br /><br />It's abandonment, from the 1970s onwards, was the start of most of our current misfortunes. <br /><br />Chris<br /><br />Precisely what information has led you to change your views on the topic to hand?Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1306883808553069042016-11-04T06:34:38.725+13:002016-11-04T06:34:38.725+13:00"His economics have proved as disaster "..."His economics have proved as disaster "<br /><br />And yet the most prosperous period in Western history occurred under a regime of Keynesian economics. I see Truthiness still abounds.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41497164841903254232016-11-03T23:00:28.858+13:002016-11-03T23:00:28.858+13:00That Keynes view is his best legacy. His economics...That Keynes view is his best legacy. His economics have proved as disaster so I would expect him to have changed his dictum if he was alive today.Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-18672692737498654152016-11-03T22:49:10.649+13:002016-11-03T22:49:10.649+13:00It would not have been in the least churlish, Vict...It would not have been in the least churlish, Victor. My position has changed since those postings were written.<br /><br />As John Maynard Keynes put it: “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?”Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-31705563735041383622016-11-03T17:57:27.723+13:002016-11-03T17:57:27.723+13:00I support that ideal view Chris but we do not leav...I support that ideal view Chris but we do not leave in that world, so for now we are in the right position, with our (sometimes mad) friends there. Our enemies include Russia in my opinion so if they left I might change my view. I see them as not just mad, but bad. Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-21487310885157178292016-11-03T16:35:34.837+13:002016-11-03T16:35:34.837+13:00And a fair answer, Chris.
It would be churlish of...And a fair answer, Chris.<br /><br />It would be churlish of me to cite other posts of yours which may have given a different impression. So I will simply signal my broad agreement with your position as now stated.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-22071590863487305912016-11-03T15:58:06.501+13:002016-11-03T15:58:06.501+13:00A fair question, Victor.
My answer is quite strai...A fair question, Victor.<br /><br />My answer is quite straightforward.<br /><br />I have come to the conclusion that the presence of the Western powers (among which I still include Russia) in the Middle East lies at the root of practically all of that unhappy region's problems.<br /><br />The logical consequence of this conclusion is to call for the withdrawal of all Western forces - including Russia's - from their present theatres of operation, and for the immediate cessation of all arms sales to the combatants.<br /><br />The USA and the Russian Federation should then join forces in the UN Security Council to demand that no other power/s (are you listening Beijing?) attempt to profit from or fill the resulting power vacuum.<br /><br />I realise this is the counsel of perfection, so, in the event that the West does not vacate the region, we New Zealanders should do so unilaterally. Not only because it is the right thing to do, but also because it would allow us to make the case for Western withdrawal on the international stage.<br /><br />Yes, chaos and mayhem may well erupt in our wake, but the essential point is that it will be their chaos and mayhem to resolve - not ours. <br /><br />The settling of Europe's 20th Century borders cost a minimum of 30 million lives. Could it be that we in the West are not the best people to pronounce upon the future shape of the Arab lands?Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-65493940141399708432016-11-03T15:30:13.312+13:002016-11-03T15:30:13.312+13:00Chris
I'm sorry but I just don't underst...Chris <br /><br />I'm sorry but I just don't understand what seems to me to be your double standards concerning the mirror-image Syrian and Iraqi conflicts. <br /><br />In the former, Russia is abetting the government in overcoming a Sunni Jihadist uprising, with the aid of hardline Shi'ite militia and a coalition of other forces, some of them Kurdish.<br /><br />In the latter, the US is abetting the government in overcoming a Sunni Jihadist uprising, with the aid of hardline Shi'ite militia and a coalition of other forces, some of them, Kurdish.<br /><br />The most significant differences between these two inter-linked conflicts seem to me to be that the government in Baghdad has a mite more democratic legitimacy than that in Damascus and is controlled by members of the majority community.<br /><br />Apart from that, there are very broad similarities between these two obviously inter-related conflicts.<br /><br />So how is it possible to argue, as you seem to have done repeatedly of recent months, that Russia's involvement in Syria is praiseworthy, whilst condemning the current US involvement Iraq? <br /><br />I don't normally find you guilty of double standards and am prepared to accept that I've misunderstood your position. If so, how?<br /><br />Need I add that I write as someone who was absolutely opposed ab inito to the illegal invasion of Iraq by the Anglophone coalition in 2003 and to America's earlier blood-stained adventures in South-East Asia and Central America.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-11695675895687775662016-11-03T09:52:04.197+13:002016-11-03T09:52:04.197+13:00"The NZ clearly has never had any understandi..."The NZ clearly has never had any understanding of what its British and American allies required of it"<br /><br />I think the New Zealand government perfectly well understood that as their allies were so much bigger and better armed than we are, that all they needed from us was some form of token contribution giving them political legitimacy. Certainly that was the understanding in Vietnam, where the US was desperate to get other countries involved.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-63858426887332450952016-11-02T16:41:12.124+13:002016-11-02T16:41:12.124+13:00NZ clearly has never had any understanding of what...NZ clearly has never had any understanding of what its British and American allies required of it. POst 1956 our Army has never been large enough to contribute much to nay allied effort and being small and differently equipped it represented even less. THe same applied to the modernised Skyhawks which to Nationals surprise were not wanted for the 1991 Gulf war as they were obsolete, slow, and had been refitted in a way inconsitent with the remaining USN and Marine force Skyhawks. In the 1980s we had the same idea that what the US Navy government mainly wanted was access for its nuclear powered vessels. However the USN had completly abandoned any idea of converting its fleet to nuclear power after 3 mile islands spectacular meltdown in which total disaster was avoided by a few minutes in realtively sophisticated Pennslvania in 1989. <br />Many New Zealands action have shocked Whitehall senseless. The attempt to withdraw Royalist from the Suez adventure in 1956 and the denail of access for the RNs frigate and destroyer force in 1985 when the Royal Navy relied totally on the nondivisible 2nd line nuclear deterence of its frigates and destroyers as it really lacked any effective conventional anti submarine weapons.Robert Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-20564922267269816592016-11-02T14:09:23.928+13:002016-11-02T14:09:23.928+13:00Thanks Nick J for giving another version of reason...Thanks Nick J for giving another version of reason for Russian continued attacks. As you say there is so much disinformation about. Really it puts tv drama shows out of business. Truth is stranger than fiction.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24421411938509230152016-11-02T08:55:47.762+13:002016-11-02T08:55:47.762+13:00“If a country cannot mobilize the capability and t...“If a country cannot mobilize the capability and the will to fight and win after receiving our aid and training, sending our own troops to do the fighting would at best provide only temporary success. Once we left, the enemy would take over.” Richard. NixonGuerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-40529372782112785592016-11-01T22:16:23.919+13:002016-11-01T22:16:23.919+13:00Wayne argues that to defeat ISIS foreign troops sh...Wayne argues that to defeat ISIS foreign troops should remain. I would note that ISIS ran rampant with foreign troops present until locals stood firm. With so much disinformation flowing it is hard to know.<br /><br />What appears from my viewing of Al Jazeira is that a large portion of ISIS fighters were paid foreigners. US UK airstrikes failed to stop revenue flows from oil sales in over a year. You would have to question their intention given their capacity to stop oil flowing through Turkey onto the black market. By contrast Russian airstrikes reportedly stopped the oil in a week. Fighters had their pay cut and are reported deserting and going home. Weaponry supplies diminished. The Syrian and Iraqi forces gained traction.<br /><br />As stated I get the story from Al Jazeira. Is it true? Who knows who to trust but given what they say I question the views of starry eyed supporters of US imperialism like Wayne. There is a seismic shift in world power and NZ has some hard choices to make. What these should be is up for debate, the first thing the people of NZ need is the truth of what we are doing and why?<br /><br /><br />Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83422774230273134982016-11-01T16:32:48.299+13:002016-11-01T16:32:48.299+13:00I think every Country has to look after itself. W...I think every Country has to look after itself. Would anyone want America to defend us? As they told the poor Vietmanese "we have to kill you to save you". An Iraqi told me that his Country has been bombed back a thousand years. Would you really want that for New Zealand?<br />Talking talking and more talking is the only answer.Patriciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509686441858091630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-21064050111280992702016-11-01T15:43:17.690+13:002016-11-01T15:43:17.690+13:00Wayne. You have made predictions about the Middle ...Wayne. You have made predictions about the Middle East before remember? That Afghanistan and Iraq were "stable". Just before the Iraqi army started running away?<br /><br />One of the reasons we should withdraw immediately, is that you can be pretty sure that the Iraqi army is going to commit – if not atrocities – then repression in the Sunni areas, no matter how much the people there might have resented Isis. And why would we want to be associated with that. Personally I think that the test of whether it's worth doing should be something like would you send your children out to fight there? I suspect not many would.<br /><br />And all the Isis fighting in the world is, as I said not going to give Iraqis a government worth fighting for or in many cases even supporting. That's the question all you conservatives seem to ignore. Why doesn't one of you try to address this question? Or is the elephant too big for the room.<br /><br />(Dammit sorry, I got my Sunnis and my Shias mixed up.)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-55913389320001901902016-11-01T14:39:17.214+13:002016-11-01T14:39:17.214+13:00This comment has been removed by the author.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.com