tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post1924929482386969727..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: The Safety Of The People Shall Be The Highest Law.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-73363228814964553742020-05-16T19:20:54.088+12:002020-05-16T19:20:54.088+12:00"No more than 10 people at gatherings (to be ...<br />"No more than 10 people at gatherings (to be reviewed 25 May), except funerals and tangihanga, which can have a maximum of 50 people if registered with Ministry of Health."<br />"Event facilities, including cinemas, stadiums, concert venues and casinos have a limit of 100 customers in each workplace at any time, with 1 metre physical distancing and record keeping."<br /><br />So more than 10 people at "gatherings" of members of family, religious or political groups are an unacceptable risk to public health, but ten times that number are fine so long as they are paying customers gambling away Mum's grocery money, watching soft porn movies or engaged in other such supposedly edifying activities.<br /><br />"Level 2" is about restoring profits and suppressing political dissent.<br />Not clear what it may have to do with public health.<br />Geoff Fischerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509885628971898371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-68658882145148215582020-05-16T06:45:42.643+12:002020-05-16T06:45:42.643+12:00Greywarbler; it's not about me.
My post was ab...Greywarbler; it's not about me.<br />My post was about the voting public's perceptions of the present government rather than my own thoughts, the horse race is in September. David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-9199324335849867202020-05-13T21:04:33.480+12:002020-05-13T21:04:33.480+12:00kiwidave why do you bother about what the governme...kiwidave why do you bother about what the government is saying - trying to explian - when your mind is made up in the negative anyway. So many commenters want to claim the right to have done the sensible thsing after the emergency - which before no-one could have stated the outcome confidently. This is not a horse race, it is our lives and our services, and I don't agree to it being a practice run on Darwin's survival of the fittest either; [the Ayn Rand version].greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-11212661773669263892020-05-11T22:29:33.792+12:002020-05-11T22:29:33.792+12:00I'm pretty happy the 3 party coalition govt is...I'm pretty happy the 3 party coalition govt is doing a good job so far... I feel the opposition would have done similar & I would have been happy about that too... so I don't know what all the fuss is about... almost all of us support the approach taken... I believe Aotearoa/New Zealand is one of the greatest little countries to be living in & we all should be grateful we're part of it (my 10c worth... & I give change) :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-12649242759569429272020-05-11T11:58:43.813+12:002020-05-11T11:58:43.813+12:00The people gave the coalition govt the power to ac...The people gave the coalition govt the power to act in any emergency back in 2017. They would have to answer that at the next elections, if necessary.petes new writehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00256560029674496199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41583747645199662032020-05-11T11:08:49.120+12:002020-05-11T11:08:49.120+12:00Chris, weren't you railing against the UK gove...Chris, weren't you railing against the UK government executive attempts to bend the rules around the implementation of the democratically endorsed brexit legislation?<br /><br />The government breach of legal niceties/legitimacy won't be a significant deterrent for most come election time. I suspect many are not even aware that governments have fairly strict, long established protocols; they think they can do pretty much what they like.<br />If there is widespread civil legal action against the illegal arrest of citizens and forced closure of business that might change.<br />There is far more concern about the tacit support for the mobsters and ethno-nationalists blocking our roads.<br /><br />Widespread concern or strong distaste also for the reported directives from the PM to news media about their content. And now this, the recent directive to MPs to not bother talking to the media; that the people love us so don't bother trying to explain.<br />Adding it all up: wilful blindness, arrogance and a contempt for the law and for the people of New Zealand. Probably best to hold fire at this time but plenty of ammunition for the opposition there.<br /><br />If I know anything about my fellow citizens it's that they will find all of that pretty disgusting; regardless of the justification.<br />Cheers,<br />David George.<br />David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-19127988569077041532020-05-10T18:43:16.460+12:002020-05-10T18:43:16.460+12:00The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the...The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.<br /><br /> H.L. Mencken Brewerstroupehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05961925625093884594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-53381816659446814842020-05-10T18:01:09.921+12:002020-05-10T18:01:09.921+12:00It is interesting to watch how the political oppos...It is interesting to watch how the political opposition and public naysayers have delayed their criticism of the government's actions to protect the country from the potentially devastating effects of this new virus of unknown and rapidly changing lethality until after it has become apparent that the action has been successful . Had it not been successful the criticism would have been about inaction or insufficiently stringent rules being applied. So support and co-operation was the strategy until it was safe to chose what angle of attack would suit the outcome.<br /> Now the political / moral capital has become so unequally balanced that desperation is setting in. How to regain some traction in this one sided popularity contest.? Every improvement is making matters worse.<br /> D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-82468458825716762232020-05-10T17:53:02.365+12:002020-05-10T17:53:02.365+12:00@greywarbler 15:19
Thanks for the reply, my commen...@greywarbler 15:19<br />Thanks for the reply, my comments really should have been addressed to Odysseus. Disparaging comments about the govt and how it acted all made without providing any evidence other than 'reckons'. The present govt is not perfect, none are, but the alternative for New Zealand at this time doesn't bear thinking about. Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-35928150152950468852020-05-10T17:18:17.818+12:002020-05-10T17:18:17.818+12:00Grey warbler, I am still trying to work out whethe...Grey warbler, I am still trying to work out whether you should have put a sarc tag on your post or not. However, I will you are a true believer. <br />There is a very interesting post by Michael Riddell at https://croakingcassandra.com/2020/05/09/the-government-response-stringency-index/ that shows we might have gone very hard, but we did not go early. You can also see that Australia was nowhere near as hard as us, yet their case rate and death rate is slightly better. So the Prime Minister's actions of going late but very hard did not save a lot of people. It probably saved no more than if we did the same as Australia. And we still have to cope with the fact that there is no vaccine and will not be for the foreseeable future, so all we have done is delay the deaths of people who have significant co-morbidities and will catch it in the next wave. There is one definite though. The deep and lockdown will have made a lot more unemployed than Australia's did. And that in itself will increase the death rate in the under 65s. <br />Chris MorrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90575332232754590882020-05-10T15:19:14.886+12:002020-05-10T15:19:14.886+12:00Kat
I think the government did react as quickly as...Kat<br />I think the government did react as quickly as they could, as you say. They took advice from WHO and others and did the right things. But they were slowed by the hostile right wing that are negative to everything they do. It will always range itself against Labour with criticism from persiflage to derision, through to legal challenges. <br /><br />This is the problem with our present political system where National considers its own desires as primary, and the needs of the people secondary. They do not care about the citizens, anything positive they do is to gain votes in that electorat, or follow plans made with wealthy lobbyists, or gain a positive image with those who consider themselves 'wealth creators'. <br /><br />Prufrock - Do you think that politicians need to remember that song 'I never promised you a rose garden'?<br /><br />Anonymous - <i>Chris - it is very hard to convince people that the Prime Minister's actions are good, when there was a document dump on Friday afternoon and a gagging order put on all the Ministers. Not the actions of a open and transparent government or a kind PM. Judge people by their actions, not their words. Chris Morris</i><br /><br />You nit-picking hound. The rightness of the PMs kind actions was to stop the entry through our borders of all the carriers from the world, so we would not die in large numbers - and they would not have all been older people either. A number of people don't like it that the PM and Cabinet undertook executive action to serve the people. You don't like that as it shows that business and financial interests haven't managed to crush the will of some in government to act in the whole country's interests and not your superior, disinterested, theoretical ideas or your back pockets, or both.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-14821890829435972292020-05-10T11:25:58.794+12:002020-05-10T11:25:58.794+12:00https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eo9M4-BrJA
https...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eo9M4-BrJA<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF_x8bdNY24&feature=youtu.be<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eR0ckpJ3bk&feature=youtu.be<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ue5F57dZMU&feature=youtu.be<br /><br />Some people are obviously spending their lockdown time productively. Which I might do if anyone could stand the sound of my singing voice.<br /><br />But there is this chorus. All those conservatives saying that the National party would have done it better – without the slightest bit of evidence. And yet business, to whom National is beholden, are constantly pushing for the end of the lockdown. Does anyone seriously believe that they wouldn't have pushed for a delay in the lockdown if National had been in power? Seems to be typical of New Zealanders – maybe of people in general these days – that everything has to be politicised, no matter what the other side does nothing is ever good enough.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-23948813786352455332020-05-09T20:12:05.973+12:002020-05-09T20:12:05.973+12:00@greywarbler
The govt was not slow to react, quite...@greywarbler<br />The govt was not slow to react, quite the opposite. The govt however did react as soon as possible given the circumstances, all the available data and projected health outcomes. If you think the govt should have acted earlier please provide or point us in the direction of the qualified information you have to back that up.<br /><br />@Simon Cohen<br />Still throwing darts, young man, about time you upped your game. On the other hand perhaps you do need a few more years with Tiddly Winks. And with regards addressing questions we are still waiting on your reply from my questions on post 10 April 2020 at 18:04. Go on, lets see if you can.Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-52456951608293558422020-05-09T20:02:41.432+12:002020-05-09T20:02:41.432+12:00To all those naysayers. Hindsight is a wonderful t...To all those naysayers. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. In fact it is 2020 Vision. Pun intended! The real test will be what the Governments response is to the coming economic crash. If has the power to do a lot but that will depend on whether they are blindsided by the belief in neoliberal economics that has ruled us since the 1980sPatriciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509686441858091630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90861171305556977442020-05-09T17:27:38.808+12:002020-05-09T17:27:38.808+12:00Don't forget that Cicero also oversaw the exec...Don't forget that Cicero also oversaw the execution of Roman citizens without trial during a state of emergency (Senatus Consultum Ultimum) and was lauded father of his country for the act. Then he himself was proscribed and legally murdered by Octavian, Lepidus and Antony. So be careful using Cicero as an example - it may not quite end up where you want it to!Prufrockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17659918463589870423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-72592615159153094162020-05-09T15:39:32.665+12:002020-05-09T15:39:32.665+12:00Chris - it is very hard to convince people that th...Chris - it is very hard to convince people that the Prime Minister's actions are good, when there was a document dump on Friday afternoon and a gagging order put on all the Ministers. Not the actions of a open and transparent government or a kind PM. Judge people by their actions, not their words. <br />Chris MorrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-60149083328153622842020-05-09T13:44:34.355+12:002020-05-09T13:44:34.355+12:00Odysseus
You have a mind with high principles as e...Odysseus<br />You have a mind with high principles as espoused over past histories.<br />Since Cicero pronounced many, many things have happened. And many things could and should have happened, but none for the first time. I think I paraphrase Sir Humphrey correctly.<br /><br />We were slow to react. The government has been in careful rabbit mode, scuttling away quickly to their hidey holes when aware of difficulties that might cost them votes. But rabbits have claws and teeth and when necessary can use them. PM Jacinda's teeth are happily visible, strong and white and fresh and ready looking. She has shown us an ability to stick to an initiative with value. Once it was shown to be necessary to act she did. The laws must be kept in mind, but this was a huge exception, making necessary direct emergency powers 'without' the sort of delaying tactics that a reactionary, self-serving National Party political coterie would be sure to bring up pleading probity.<br /><br />The Labour Coalition government are to be praised for that, and now have to carefully unwind our Levels and ask the citizens with a brain and maturity to be wary and keep to the guidelines. We will just have to keep our eyes open for the ones who were suffering before Covid-19, to see that they don't rebound in the well-known youthful belief in divine protection. If they can find pleasure and ready food sustenance at KFC and elsewhere, thank goodness that they can enjoy that sanely. It is enough to drive the precariat demented having this disease further their descent into vulnerability to extreme poverty, in the land of plenty. greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-61175396301004360402020-05-08T15:35:16.268+12:002020-05-08T15:35:16.268+12:00After having done rather little to ensure the safe...After having done rather little to ensure the safety of the people in January and February, the government saw the footage coming out of northern Italy in mid March and read the Imperial College report. It panicked, throwing common sense - and maybe legality it now seems- to the wind. The lockdown is a monument not to good government but to hysteria.Aletheianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16844528785353158042020-05-08T14:33:48.043+12:002020-05-08T14:33:48.043+12:00There is a published letter out in the Lancet by a...There is a published letter out in the Lancet by an Swedish epidemiology Professor which indicates that all New Zealand's lockdown efforts will be in vain. To quote "These facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.<br />Measures to flatten the curve might have an effect, but a lockdown only pushes the severe cases into the future —it will not prevent them. Admittedly, countries have managed to slow down spread so as not to overburden health-care systems, and, yes, effective drugs that save lives might soon be developed, but this pandemic is swift, and those drugs have to be developed, tested, and marketed quickly. Much hope is put in vaccines, but they will take time, and with the unclear protective immunological response to infection, it is not certain that vaccines will be very effective.<br />In summary, COVID-19 is a disease that is highly infectious and spreads rapidly through society. It is often quite symptomless and might pass unnoticed, but it also causes severe disease, and even death, in a proportion of the population, and our most important task is not to stop spread, which is all but futile, but to concentrate on giving the unfortunate victims optimal care."<br />Even Michael Ryan of the WHO supports the Swedish stance. If even part of this is true, then the there will be a tremendous cost to the economy and very few lives will have been "saved"<br />Chris Morris<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-23328097376528218272020-05-08T14:26:25.206+12:002020-05-08T14:26:25.206+12:00I was appalled at the personal attack which Simon ...I was appalled at the personal attack which Simon Bridges inflicted upon <br />Ashley Bloomfield during the Pandemic meeting( via zoom) at Parliament on Wednesday 6 May. He lost. my vote and the vote of many other<br />National Pary supporters. He showed himself in his true colours.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17243740867828554312020-05-08T14:00:03.151+12:002020-05-08T14:00:03.151+12:00Let’s be clear here - this is not a matter of Brid...Let’s be clear here - this is not a matter of Bridges vs Ardern - that will come later, at the moment scheduled for September. The issue here is whether or not the government was acting lawfully. It appears not and it also appears that the solution was not too difficult: pass a law (which all NZ governments do, all the time).Max Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09700377308425417842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-87824535530407244372020-05-08T12:48:43.117+12:002020-05-08T12:48:43.117+12:00Only 1 country was completely prepared.
Taiwan. Pi...Only 1 country was completely prepared.<br />Taiwan. Picking apart our response is just trying to score cheap political points.desperation .Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16439147879645901547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-61499030740469298702020-05-08T12:39:21.429+12:002020-05-08T12:39:21.429+12:00Trump may pardon Simon on Thanksgiving day Trump may pardon Simon on Thanksgiving day Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16439147879645901547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-23873024255113867082020-05-08T12:16:59.865+12:002020-05-08T12:16:59.865+12:00Kat for once in your life stop parroting the party...Kat for once in your life stop parroting the party line and address the questions that Odysseus posed.But you won't because you can't.Simon Cohennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-63921935765119204212020-05-08T11:10:32.236+12:002020-05-08T11:10:32.236+12:00Andrew Geddis, one of the "Law professors&quo...Andrew Geddis, one of the "Law professors" who has commented publicly on the legality of the lockdown, has now publicly advised Simon Bridges and the National party to "back off". Lets be clear here Simon Bridges is living up to his own wife's public description of him as a "dirty little street fighter". I rate him no better than a cheap talking thug who appears to want to be a Trump mimic. The outcome of the election in September should show the extent of public support for Simon Bridges type of dirty politics. I would imagine a number of National MPs must already be feeling like turkeys at Christmas time. <br /><br />Katnoreply@blogger.com