tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post2343818585422281949..comments2024-03-29T00:44:42.046+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Labour's Kodachrome MomentChris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-82390889615967007802012-01-31T13:10:12.498+13:002012-01-31T13:10:12.498+13:00Anonymous@4.07 & James Gray
And National'...Anonymous@4.07 & James Gray<br /><br />And National's vision and direction are?Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-36659843852527122912012-01-30T20:34:04.165+13:002012-01-30T20:34:04.165+13:00I know labour's goals are to solve the problem...I know labour's goals are to solve the problems that should be the peoples' to solve, by appropriating the resources of those who take initiative to solve them and redistribute them among those that don't, But even to me they seem very directionless in doing that lately...James Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03486170863816520903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-15316492768663380882012-01-29T16:07:11.319+13:002012-01-29T16:07:11.319+13:00Labours’ problem is the ghost of HC still in the b...Labours’ problem is the ghost of HC still in the back ground and the nanny state just waiting to re-emerge – patronisingly, forgiving us for throwing them out. They were and are a party of NO - no gst on vegetables, no Assets sales, no creditable debt reduction and no future vision – their campaign only reinforced their perception of nastiness. They are not a party of inspiration and vision. Their brand was so negative over the election campaign, unlike the Greens fresh and exciting promising a “richer future”.<br />They need to re-brand and develop a strategy beyond simple one-liners that appeals to the 3 out of 4 voters that deserted them. Expel those who linger for the past and the social engineers that promote policies such a WFF for beneficiaries, otherwise they are destined for another three years in the wilderness.<br />To old guard need to be purged out and reminded a Labour MP is not a meal ticket for life. Promoting causes that reflect ideologies thirty years old is a slow cancer, advocating for 300 greedy wharfies are not going to en-dear them to the rest of us that work our butts off and don’t suck of the welfare teat. Where is their rebuild vision for Christchruch? Silence! That’s why we sung national. <br />Sooner the pinko lefties self destruct the better, Chris Carter was right Labour is un-electable until its reforms it’s self and stop telling us how to live our lives, stop playing the man and not the ball.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-61146250192468613562012-01-29T09:57:15.706+13:002012-01-29T09:57:15.706+13:00"The Labour Party Opposition should be in the..."The Labour Party Opposition should be in the business of displaying courage, thinking the unthinkable, searching for the root causes of the nation’s problems and coming up with solutions that require the voters to discard their prejudices, step away from past failures, and take the risk of committing themselves to something new."<br /><br />Errrr... Shouldn't they have been doing that in government?rouppehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07446734587426078093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-57501166582483192552012-01-28T23:12:31.392+13:002012-01-28T23:12:31.392+13:00Oh, come ON, Paul! That sort of sophistry ill beco...Oh, come ON, Paul! That sort of sophistry ill becomes you.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-92005544717537566202012-01-28T21:50:46.451+13:002012-01-28T21:50:46.451+13:00Chris
re your comment
"Standing in solidari...Chris<br />re your comment <br /><br />"Standing in solidarity with the Maritime Unions? Perish the thought!"<br /><br />You demonstrate a poor understanding of the makeup of the Labour Party - the Maritime Union is an Affiliated Member of the Labour Party and its officials are senior members of the Affiliates Council. The Party doesn't need to 'stand in solidarity', it is there because the unions members are the rank and file of the Labour Party.paul chalmersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43491800139543683992012-01-27T18:56:33.569+13:002012-01-27T18:56:33.569+13:00Anonymous@5.49pm
As you don't have a view ove...Anonymous@5.49pm<br /><br />As you don't have a view over how things should be run, you'll just have to put up with the 'shopworn' ideas of others.<br /><br />Besides, I never made any claims to originality.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-56356229913648088052012-01-27T17:49:07.063+13:002012-01-27T17:49:07.063+13:00@ Victor
I'm suggesting that Chris and anyone...@ Victor<br /><br />I'm suggesting that Chris and anyone else who values rationality, fact based discourse and traditional political virtues just stop bothering – they're all tilting at windmills, and it seems to be making Chris more miserable with each passing month. <br /><br />Although I don't see much in your rather shopworn defence of democracy, I am not trying to make any suggestions about what New Zealand should or should not do.<br /><br />I'm suggesting that reasonable people should find something else to do with their time. Worrying about politics is a deeply masochistic activity. It's about as sensible as hoping that the top ten singles chart will one day be filled with music of good quality on an ongoing basis.<br /><br />Watching good people flog themselves in the hope that it will get better just makes me sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-8083583506238519772012-01-27T16:13:57.447+13:002012-01-27T16:13:57.447+13:00Anonymous@12.34pm
"Why not just give it up?...Anonymous@12.34pm <br /><br />"Why not just give it up? Democratic politics has become silly. Have you watched the news lately? It's a circus."<br /><br />Because any conceivable alternative is likely to be so much worse and even more dominated by imagery, lies and delusion rather than by reason.<br /><br />It was not, after all, a democratic regime that invented 'Potemkin villages'.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1969031460220436252012-01-27T14:53:28.258+13:002012-01-27T14:53:28.258+13:00I agree, Chris, Labour has not been able to succes...I agree, Chris, Labour has not been able to successfully communicate its vision of where they want to take New Zealand (if they have one). In fact the clean green future Shearer has begun to articulate appears to parrot the Green party's election campaign. <br /><br />The fact that the Greens have been leading the debate on key issues (child poverty, water quality, job creation, mining and mine safety, and industrial relations) should be a concern for Labour. It almost appears as if they let the Greens test the public waters on an issue before stepping in and pretend to take a principled stand once they know it has support. <br /><br />Already it is the new Green MPs that have hit the gound running on the POAL crisis, the lignite mining in Mataura and the concerning food bill. I guess Labour will not make a strong appearance until after they have checked public opinion and carefully chosen the issues that resonate best with voters.Dave Kennedyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12428353657153292616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-67246543849286835272012-01-27T14:08:02.255+13:002012-01-27T14:08:02.255+13:00"Displaying courage."
I'm very glad..."Displaying courage." <br />I'm very glad you mentioned that phrase, Chris, because courage is what it takes to revamp welfare in this country. For far too long, governments have neglected to mention that as well as having "rights", those receiving benefits (i.e. money from taxpayers) have *obligations* as well. <br /><br />For example, the obligation to look for work or training. The obligation to not have more children than you can afford to look after. <br /><br />Very un-PC of me to say that, Chris, yet you and I know that this happens, and happens very often. <br /><br />Simple question - why should the state (i.e. taxpayers) pay for poor people to have children, when this will almost inevitably result in poor outcomes for those children? <br /><br />Is that lack of responsibility not a key cause of poverty, Chris? Yes or no? <br />Of course it is. <br /><br />Simple, common-sense stuff - heck, advising low-income people not to have too many children (more than say, three) is *good advice!* However, you will never see Labour mention such things. <br />Why would they? <br />Why would they want to see their core constituency disappear? <br /><br />On the other hand, why would National NOT want to help those on benefits become better-off? This would eventually *add* to their constituency, after all. <br /><br /> I don't believe that the country is at all well served by saying that welfare is untouchable. That people should be on benefits for life. <br />That people should be in state houses for life. Such an "abandonment" attitude doesn't help those people, and it sure doesn't help the country as a whole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38758641898602578582012-01-27T13:40:45.185+13:002012-01-27T13:40:45.185+13:00Yes, yes again yes.
The art of positive thinking, ...Yes, yes again yes.<br />The art of positive thinking, not negativity.Paulusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4937528793854524952012-01-27T12:34:49.052+13:002012-01-27T12:34:49.052+13:00Again, it isn't Labour's fault. They are t...Again, it isn't Labour's fault. They are the remnants of a reality based political party operating in a postmodern society where reality is whatever individual voters want it to be. Your article more or less concedes this by holding that Labour's problem is an image problem because they don't make people feel good. Facts don't matter at all, of course. <br /><br />You can't have a political party based on genuine solidarity in a hyper individualist world – particularly when this has led to the abandonment of public reason – because solidarity requires a shared conception of the real.<br /><br />Politics is now just a kind of advertising. There is nothing behind the images, since the image itself is the commodity. In practical political terms the idea of a reality behind this serves no political purpose.<br /><br />Why not just give it up? Democratic politics has become silly. Have you watched the news lately? It's a circus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-13185655306062491952012-01-27T11:37:44.475+13:002012-01-27T11:37:44.475+13:00a party of social engieers and refromers, with Mar...a party of social engieers and refromers, with Marxist ideals and hard left leanings, but no longer the ordinary workers'party, they need to go further right.<br />The Greens look more in line with National right now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com