tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post2873342957898640115..comments2024-03-29T03:41:12.499+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Will Marama Davidson Grow, Or Shrink, The Green Party Vote?Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-14649326375937392702018-04-25T12:46:34.376+12:002018-04-25T12:46:34.376+12:00sumsuch: Democracy is a constantly evolving system...sumsuch: Democracy is a constantly evolving system of government, which takes different forms in different nations and eras, and we are right to question whether the forms of democracy that exist in modern industrial societies are a good fit to their technological and social circumstances. Technology has put intermediaries between the people and their putative representatives and seen an end to mass political parties, and thereby weakened the foundations of democracy. However it has also opened up possibilities for a genuine, responsive, responsible, participatory and relatively harmonious form of democracy. So why have we failed to make take advantage of those possibilities? Apathy? Inertia? Fear of change? Or perhaps because there is a perversity in human nature which makes us complain about the state of politics while failing to take the simple, obvious and fair steps which would remove most of our political grievances?Geoff Fischerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509885628971898371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-49269980552616361352018-04-21T01:26:02.899+12:002018-04-21T01:26:02.899+12:00Dinna kin this post. Who have you voted for?! Labo...Dinna kin this post. Who have you voted for?! Labour is the victory of hope over reality. Or, mebbe, realpolitik?! However a demo-cratist's heart is central to them unlike the other ones.<br /><br />Geoff Fischer, democracy is the best of a bad lot (Churchill (well known hypocrite)), like the time Massey played the Catholic card for another 3 years. Everything is worse. And aren't we and 'they' stupid as it comes.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />sumsuchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133092096534660472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25933204187130393472018-04-17T18:15:14.305+12:002018-04-17T18:15:14.305+12:00Chris? You're complaining about the Greens goi...Chris? You're complaining about the Greens going left? You are a progressive ...arent you?Andrew Nicholsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24278751579238037802018-04-17T12:49:18.146+12:002018-04-17T12:49:18.146+12:00Labour is the major group in the coalition, not th...Labour is the major group in the coalition, not the Greens. And forget the social housing label - its still state housing. National is still self imploding. Gods knows what they will look like when they may get back into power in 20 odd years?peteswriteplacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474922953916383101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-6979697310274704032018-04-16T11:45:06.124+12:002018-04-16T11:45:06.124+12:00I presume that Davidson was elected to leadership ...I presume that Davidson was elected to leadership of the Green Party by a democratic process. We who are not members of the Green Party should therefore respect that, and the wider democratic process should allow the Green Party members and supporters to have a voice in the legislature which is proportionate to their numbers. It won't happen like that of course, so the problem is not that the Greens made a "bad" choice, but that the system of political representation in New Zealand (even given MMP) is seriously defective.<br />I don't know whether Chris Trotter's claim that Labour supporters cast tactical votes for the Greens is correct or not. There may be anecdotal evidence to that effect, but it would be hard if not impossible to prove that it was a significant factor. In any case the issue of tactical voting points to a flaw of the electoral system. Tactical voting, with its risks and uncertainties, should not be necessary. There should be no place for it in a truly democratic system.<br />"Right alongside this antagonism towards the elites, however, is a growing sense of alienation from the restraints of democracy itself. Young activists in particular find it less and less acceptable that numerical majorities have the power to over-ride and/or set-aside their demands..."<br />Absolutely, and the "young activists" are largely justified in that respect. Is it acceptable for the democratic process to be like a glorified Lotto draw in which a party or parties with the right numbers on the night win absolute power, and those with "wrong" combination are deprived of all influence? It is not a question of right or left, old or young, liberal or conservative. The system itself is flawed. The culture of "We wcn, you lost, eat that" (in the inimitable words of Sir Michael Cullen) must be changed if we are to have a genuinely representative government "of the people, by the people, for the people", and if we had that the Green's choice of leader would have no unintended electoral consequences, and from that point of view would be unremarkable.Geoff Fischerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509885628971898371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-11413398373570968702018-04-14T00:51:01.638+12:002018-04-14T00:51:01.638+12:00Two sides of Trotter, and here the brain over the ...Two sides of Trotter, and here the brain over the heart. You describe it well greywarbler. I couldn't vote for Labour. Won't go into the left guy on RNZ National's 'Left v. Right' Monday morning section. Except, no heart : that we would prefer Clinton to Sanders?! And heart, unlike the Right, is vital to the people.sumsuchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133092096534660472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30896236566766135552018-04-11T18:44:56.321+12:002018-04-11T18:44:56.321+12:00You are at your finest when you offer considered p...You are at your finest when you offer considered political analysis, like here; less so when you serve up overripe dogma. Kiwiwithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507667837257013301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1462047983485058492018-04-11T15:44:17.190+12:002018-04-11T15:44:17.190+12:00Traditionally, Māori and Pasifika families are lar...<i>Traditionally, Māori and Pasifika families are larger, with more children and multi-generational needs. Home ownership is on the decline and private rental housing is often out of reach for these communities. At the same time, the supply of social housing for those with extended families or many children, is in short supply.</i><br />https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018639338/insight-full-house-homelessness-and-big-families<br /><br />Larger state houses or personal responsibility? Sweep that under the mat (Green) Maramajhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-91636600870785175492018-04-11T13:42:23.193+12:002018-04-11T13:42:23.193+12:00Marama Davidson will sink the Green Party vote, Ju...Marama Davidson will sink the Green Party vote, Julie Ann Genter would have sunk it more.<br />The Greens are not precise in policy direction.<br />Both National and Labour will/ are adopting green objectives.<br />The Greens are living but becoming more fossilised has time ages them.Pollynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-86040624399322526922018-04-11T07:09:07.418+12:002018-04-11T07:09:07.418+12:00The left should stop deluding themselves....the nz...The left should stop deluding themselves....the nz first tail is very clearly wagging this labour /green dog. This will not end well for any of them...GJEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-68391012507613661842018-04-10T22:30:37.295+12:002018-04-10T22:30:37.295+12:00The Greens have undoubtedly thought about the year...The Greens have undoubtedly thought about the years of people needing help and not getting, of needing intelligent moves to provide training for the unemployed, to have skills in advance of jobs, not after. The unmet need for housing valued fairly with a reasonable rent regime. And they have looked at each other and said 'If not now, when? If not us, who will do this?'<br /><br />And they have been prepared to put a crack in the Green cohesion. Some will straddle this division, but their pervasive middle class meme of care of the environment and its creatures may not include smelly humans.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-71757162206522540032018-04-10T21:08:06.037+12:002018-04-10T21:08:06.037+12:00This idea that Labour is not left just needs to di...This idea that Labour is not left just needs to die a horrible political death like Bill English leading an election campaign. At 17 MP's Māori are now larger than any other right wing faction with in Labour. Those who claim labour is not left really are delusional. Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-6958500222817891892018-04-10T18:47:57.322+12:002018-04-10T18:47:57.322+12:00The more important question is wider & bigger ...The more important question is wider & bigger for Labour: How to prevent any loss from labour to Green. L have G just where they suit: propping them up but no more. Weak but helpful. And it should shut up the older white man hater. She has done the gov no good at all.<br /><br />I don't know anything about the new group think person the Gs have elected but she is bound to be more attractive than the one she replaces. So the net effect may well be a tick up for them.Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58470088499682956482018-04-10T12:11:11.214+12:002018-04-10T12:11:11.214+12:00Ian Roberts
I agree wholeheartedly about the left&...Ian Roberts<br />I agree wholeheartedly about the left's spirits residing in the Greens, and being an endangered species perhaps with a sad end possible, expressed succinctly in NZese as - 'dog tucker'.<br /><br />Query is - Are the left spirits just hanging round in haunting mode or hovering kindly, anxiously waiting for leftie mediums to summon them up at Labour seances or, as they hold hands supportively and communally, at Green group meetings? greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-81600569772753448372018-04-10T11:40:02.014+12:002018-04-10T11:40:02.014+12:00I think it will shrink. Marama's Twitter accou...I think it will shrink. Marama's Twitter account is still unverified with no tick and her nan doe dosnt say co-leader yet. Small problems I know but multiply that by time = potential Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-18426505724744644092018-04-10T10:42:55.519+12:002018-04-10T10:42:55.519+12:00Jesus wept Chris, one minute you're saying the...Jesus wept Chris, one minute you're saying the Labour Party should move left, (and there is reasonable evidence to show that it could be successful), and the next minute you're worried about the Greens being too far left. Sometimes I think you should make up your mind. :) On the whole though, I think it will lose them middle-class votes – and most of the Greens'voters are middle-class it seems to me. What they then have to do is try to sell themselves to the working class, which they're not doing a great job of at the moment.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-68273178158997329492018-04-10T09:57:18.438+12:002018-04-10T09:57:18.438+12:00Its time the Greens won a seat. Could Mararma Davi...Its time the Greens won a seat. Could Mararma Davidson win a seat in South Auckland.Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-73758000248832732802018-04-10T09:41:50.449+12:002018-04-10T09:41:50.449+12:00Without a left leaning Green party, people like me...Without a left leaning Green party, people like me would have no one to vote for. Labour is staring down the barrel of it's third strike right now. If it doesn't change course during this term it'll be dog tucker.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07154238161056416585noreply@blogger.com