tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post3003995326305320779..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: The Purity Of Arms.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-69508920993629726822017-01-20T23:18:55.104+13:002017-01-20T23:18:55.104+13:00Zionism's "dark side" may have been ...Zionism's "dark side" may have been present for several decades before World War Two. However, the movement definitely became more militant and less compromising in the shadow of the Holocaust and, even more so, in its immediate aftermath.<br /><br />This reflected not just the urgent need to find a home for the survivors (often unwanted and in peril in their pre-war places of domicile) but also the way that the Shoah seemed to justify Herzl’s founding premise that Jews could never be safe or accepted in the Diaspora. <br /> <br />And Chris is certainly correct that some of those who had fought the Nazis in Europe (western as well as eastern ) were amongst the harbingers of this new militancy, even though they drew on a "Revisionist" ideology that dated back to the 1920s and 30s. The same was true of many a concentration camp survivor, as well as of Jewish veterans of the Free Polish army. <br /><br />He’s also right about Ben Gurion. However, that arch-pragmatist was never an enthusiast for expanding much beyond Israel’s pre-1967 frontiers.<br /><br />There’s an oft-told tale of how the elderly ‘BG’ was taken round the newly-occupied West Bank by his former protégées Dayan and Rabin. The old man looked distinctly unimpressed and said curtly: “ We should take the little we need and then get out as quickly as possible!”<br /><br />Both Israelis and Palestinians might be happier today if that advice had been taken,Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83127100923734499132017-01-20T14:18:26.678+13:002017-01-20T14:18:26.678+13:00Good point about Begin, I didn't know he arriv...Good point about Begin, I didn't know he arrived so late in Palestine compared to other Zionist leaders of his generation.<br /><br />Though Wikipedia and JVL claim he joined the Polish Anders' Army rather than Jewish resistance, and it looks unclear how much fighting against the Nazis was done before the Anders' Army arrived in the Middle East via Iran. It looks like he was one of about 3000 Jewish soldiers from that army that stayed in Palestine before it became part of the Polish II Corps which later fought in Italy.<br /><br />I think the idealism and the "dark side" go hand-in-hand in Zionism, as they do in many things (e.g. Soviet communism, U.S.A, Dr Truby King, Wiston Churchill etc). Sometime Dr Jekyll has the upper hand, sometimes Mr Hyde. Sometimes Jekyll is used to disguise Hyde.<br /><br /><br /><br />Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04430437789984170487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38865055806938844392017-01-20T12:10:55.159+13:002017-01-20T12:10:55.159+13:00To: Ian.
I was thinking of men like Menachem Begi...To: Ian.<br /><br />I was thinking of men like Menachem Begin. Born in Poland, fled the Nazis, interned by the Soviets, released and joined the Jewish resistance, given leave in 1942 to make his way to Palestine where he organised Lehi/Irgun militia. As the leader of Likud, he became Israel's first non-Labour prime minister.<br /><br />Don't dispute your claims re: Ben Gurion. I'm sure all the Zionist leaders understood in their hearts that the only long-term solution was, as Jabotinsky asserted well before 1948, a one-state solution - erected behind the iron wall of Israeli arms.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24891046910843275532017-01-20T11:09:57.634+13:002017-01-20T11:09:57.634+13:00Well said Ian. People seem to forget that Ben Guri...Well said Ian. People seem to forget that Ben Gurion was happy to ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. There are two options for this problem. Essentially a two state solution or a one state solution. Neither of which are viable – due to Israeli government policies mainly. And with Trump in the White House now, Netanyahu is looking at and annexing more and more land. As indeed the Likud charter says he is entitled to. That's scuttling the two state solution. And the one state solution cannot exist without ethnic cleansing or more Apartheid. As I said, no one in Israel is thinking long-term. The present situation might be sustainable in the short term but in the medium to long-term it's a lit fuse. Oh well, if it blows up I guess it will be a boost for more sustainable power systems when the oil dries up.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83227659617223881622017-01-19T23:38:57.163+13:002017-01-19T23:38:57.163+13:00"Those who had fought the Nazis face-to-face ..."Those who had fought the Nazis face-to-face in the forests of Eastern Europe arrived in Palestine with an altogether darker view of human nature"<br /><br />Where did this myth come from?<br /><br />It doesn't fit with the rest of your post where you talk of Vladimir Jabotinsky, whose brand of Zionism predates the Nazis. <br /><br />And Jabotinsky isn't an isolated example, groups like Irgun, Lehi (aka the Stern Gang) were founded by people who were already in Palestine before the Nazis came to power. Some like Ariel Sharon were born in Palestine, Sharon's Unit 101 of the IDF carried on the "dark" work (aka terrorism) that Irgun and Lehi had done in the 1930s and 1940s.<br /><br />It is very romantic to blame the dark side of Zionism on the Nazis or Netanyahu but it was there from the beginning of the 20th century. It also existed among the socialist Zionists. While David Ben-Gurion was idealistic in public, his private statements about dealing with the Arabs living in Palestine are no different from Jabotinsky's. He was also just as much a fear monger as Netanyahu. Publicly warning of another Holocaust in 1947 when he knew from his spies that the Arabs had neither the capacity nor the inclination. He also claimed Sinai was Israel's in 1956. Most of Israel's wars of expansion (1947/8, 1956, 1967) were started by Israeli socialist governments. Both the 1947 and 1967 wars included ethnic cleansing. If Eisenhower hadn't pressured Israel to withdraw from Sinai in 1957 (which they did with ill-grace, theft and destruction) we would surely have seen ethnic cleansing and settlements there too, as David Ben-Gurion made good on his claim.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04430437789984170487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-13151871308507269522017-01-18T13:57:12.356+13:002017-01-18T13:57:12.356+13:00Yes if only Victor.
One quite possible event that ...Yes if only Victor.<br />One quite possible event that could change things in that sort of direction dramatically would be a war directly between Iran and Saudi Arabia, where Israel agrees to support SA, the Sunnis, in exchange for a comprehensive peace deal with the remaining Sunni dominated countries. They have peace with Jordan, Egypt and Turkey already, all Sunni.<br />Probably too simplistic and war is almost always a disaster.<br />Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-91852334142216539052017-01-17T19:27:04.762+13:002017-01-17T19:27:04.762+13:00Charles
If I could go back in time and be someone...Charles<br /><br />If I could go back in time and be someone famous for a day, I'd be David Ben Gurion in 1947, when Golda Meier returned from her meeting with Abdullah I, with his plan for a federation under the Hashemite crown.<br /><br />I'd have said:"There may be something here that we can work with. Let's talk".Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-35629835824619882652017-01-17T16:09:01.040+13:002017-01-17T16:09:01.040+13:00Chris an informative piece on the enforced humanit...Chris an informative piece on the enforced humanity principle of the IDF and its future. I agree, you are partly right, in your claim that it arose from socialist origins. But Israel has always also been a religious country, nation, aspiration. Before its latest supposedly secular re-founding in 1948 the Jews living there were mostly religious and it is Judaism that has been the cement throughout the thousands of years the Jewish people have survived, there and elsewhere, despite many attempts to destroy them. Their enemies never learn. But they do.<br /><br />So the current apparent dominance of the religious right may not last. They are perhaps in power because the majority of Israelis think their country is safer in their hands, that’s all. The majority of Israelis are no more religious than Kiwis.<br />I was there for a few weeks last year visiting a daughter on a kibbutz based cultural and political gap year. The movement she was part of still calls itself Socialist Zionism. It is reduced compared to when I was on kibbutz in 1981 but still I would say half the country is left wing, and going nowhere (in both senses). So I would not be so pessimistic as you.<br /> <br />I actually think there may be a federation one day between Israel, Jordan & and a Palestinian entity. A relative (by marriage) of mine in Haifa, when I pointed out how busy the big port there was, said ‘Of course, it is a vital port for Jordan now. Don’t you know, Israel and Jordan are close and getting closer. They have the same enemies.’. Jordan is very afraid it could go down the Syrian road too. There are a lot of refugees there and the huge majority of the population are Palestinians. Very few want war so the security system ruthlessly keeps it that way. They see the economic growth in Israel, which is spectacular and they want that. And they can have it, once Islarmism is defeated. Until then, the Likud Party will be in power indefinitely and those people who attacked Israel in the past and lost those wars, will continue to lose ground. It’s what happens to those who lose wars.<br />Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83069947780282592132017-01-16T16:09:49.668+13:002017-01-16T16:09:49.668+13:00David
Without any huge, specialised knowledge, I&...David<br /><br />Without any huge, specialised knowledge, I've been thinking about possible land swaps since, if not 1967, then about 1973.<br /><br />I frankly can't see how it would work, other than on a very minor (and necessary) scale, given the narrow parameters of both Israel and any putative Palestinian state.<br /><br />It would , perhaps, have been easier to suggest swaps if the UN had split the two parts of mandatory Palestine on an east/west axis instead of a north/south axis, which, for broadly demographic reasons, it didn't do. That<br />way, you wouldn't have had two long, thin, hard-to-defend strips.<br /> <br />I also think that the problem has been bedeviled by Winston Churchill hiving-off the larger part of Palestine to form the Emirate (later Kingdom) of Transjordan in nineteen-twenty-something and by the decision of King Hussein, under huge pressure from all sides, to relinquish Jordan's claim to authority on the West Bank circa 1970. <br /><br />The net result of these two decisions has been to restrict the geographical space needed for any settlement. <br /><br />And I think that I must have explained myself very badly in previous posts on this thread because I believe Trump to be very, very pro-Israel, a point I thought I'd made quite clear. <br /><br />The last thing to expect from him (or from Putin) is a move to make Israel/Palestine into a single entity, based on equal rights for all. Moreover, obviously, neither he nor Putin are likely to consent to the alternative project of a non-democratic, Apartheid-style, unified Israel/Palestine, as this would give them both far too many enemies globally, let alone in the Middle East. <br /><br />But, despite his fondness for Israel, Trump's campaign included sending dog-whistle Antisemitic messages to his supporters and, even if it hadn't, American Jews would not have voted for him in large numbers, both because they traditionally vote Democratic and tend to have liberal attitudes and because, like most diaspora Jews, they can spot a fascist at ten thousand paces. <br /><br />What I was suggesting is that an increasing tendency amongst US Jews to make their support for Israel more nuanced, will not have any effect on the Trump administration, because liberal Jews (i.e. the majority of US Jews)dislike and are disliked by the new administration, which owes them no favours. Bibi, of course, knows this and is very happy with the outcome. Also, Bibi and Obama cordially hated each other. <br /><br />So profuse apologies for not making my point clearer. In my defence, may I add that nothing about the Middle East is easy or, very often, clear.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4286305798120504712017-01-16T13:26:15.312+13:002017-01-16T13:26:15.312+13:00That's only their interpretation of the raptur...That's only their interpretation of the rapture Victor. I have a different interpretation myself. It largely involves me driving around in a Rolls-Royce, and not being badgered on my front doorstep by people wanting to give me the blessings of religion :-).Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-51703096792663039472017-01-15T18:10:33.808+13:002017-01-15T18:10:33.808+13:00Hi Victor
Thanks for that, Evidently you are...Hi Victor<br /><br /> Thanks for that, Evidently you are quite familiar with the situation there. Is it conceivable that a land swap rather than a grab could be worked out that would provide Israel with the strategic security she wants in exchange for a continuity of Palestine with Gaza and equivalent productive land to what has been taken?<br /><br /> You don't seem to think Trump is going to help the situation much , or is particularly pro Israel, but he sided strongly against the UN resolution that settlements should stop. Do you think he feels that rather than a two state solution a one state reality should be recognised, encompassing all of Palestine/Israel and giving voting, citizen and property rights to Jew and Arab alike?<br />Cheers D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-55235764314208193772017-01-15T10:32:09.959+13:002017-01-15T10:32:09.959+13:00GS
I think you misunderstand the "Rapture&qu...GS<br /><br />I think you misunderstand the "Rapture". As I understand it, you won't have much of a life to get on with.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-76654575699064715522017-01-15T10:29:42.318+13:002017-01-15T10:29:42.318+13:00David
My apologies. I've misunderstood your q...David<br /><br />My apologies. I've misunderstood your question and concentrated on what the US and Russia could do separately when I think you were asking what they can and/or are likely to do together. <br /><br />Well, one possibility is to just allow Bibi to annex everything up to the "Separation Barrier". No, it won't solve anything. But it will be some sort of "settlement" and the three tough guys - Trump, Putin and Bibi - would have an apparent solution that fits their predelictions.<br /><br />I suspect, though, that Putin will be too smart for this as it would mean sundering his connection with the Shi'ite block and placing his new friendship with tough guy number 4, Erdogan, in jeopardy. <br /><br />So all I think will happen is that they will give Israel a free hand in Gaza, next time there's a terrorism spike and otherwise allow it to further entrench itself on the West Bank. So not much will change. It's just there will be less pretence about peace processes.<br /><br />it seems to me that a key fact is that Putin, unlike many nationalistic Russians, does not seem to be personally Antisemitic. He also sees Russian-born immigrants to Israel as part of a greater Russophone community that he has a responsibility to protect. In fact, he's called Israel the most Russian country outside Russia.<br /><br />Add that to Israel's technology and you have a relationship of growing significance, albeit one tempered by Russia's other relationships in the Middle East. We will have to wait and see how all this plays out.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-80345251514995098832017-01-14T16:49:11.881+13:002017-01-14T16:49:11.881+13:00Trump's attitude on Israel is going to be &quo...Trump's attitude on Israel is going to be "interesting". A Jewish son-in-law, and a daughter who has converted – yet he surrounds himself with people who are almost certainly anti-Semitic. On the other hand of course there is the traditional American support base for Israel, which largely consists of evangelicals who both voted for Trump and believe that Israel is going to bring on the end of times and the rapture. Can't wait myself. Get rid of all the idiots and are sensible people can get on with our lives. Plus I will be the first person up and down the street going through the houses of the "raptured" to see what they have left behind – after all you can't take it with you.:)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90646702293300395212017-01-14T11:13:27.488+13:002017-01-14T11:13:27.488+13:00David
There's not much the US can do, apart f...David<br /><br />There's not much the US can do, apart from encouraging Israel and the PLO to get back to talking and placing at least some limits on its support for Israel.<br /><br />Freed from electoral pressures, Obama has recently made what would have been significant and long overdue changes in US policy, were he not a "lame duck". Trump, clearly, has no interest in taking this new approach forward. So we can forget about it.<br /><br />As to Russia, it can do nothing to restrain small, localised guerilla and terrorist operations, other than by taking over the Gaza strip and applying the Grozny/Aleppo treatment. This, thankfully, is not going to happen.<br /><br />Where Russian influence might be useful is in restraining its Shi'ite allies, including Hezbollah. But, its Syrian intervention notwithstanding, how much influence does Moscow really have in Teheran or East Beirut? Not a lot, I reckon. <br /><br />I agree, of course, that those outside the conflict should be doing all they can to make life more tolerable for the inhabitants of Gaza. But it doesn't help when, every three or four years, the IDF creates a very minor version of the Grozny effect in the strip. <br /><br />For what it's worth, my own long-held view, as a diaspora Jew, is that diaspora communities should make their support for Israel more explicitly conditional on the country behaving according to the norms that they themselves live by. <br /><br />This is already happening through organisations such as 'J Street' in the US and 'Yachad' in the UK, both of which claim to be "Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestine". <br /><br />But US Jewry's traditional liberalism means that, son-in-law and a few cronies apart, it's firmly outside the new administration's circle of affection. So its opinions will be of little significance in either Washington or Jerusalem over the next four years.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58668602838237643292017-01-13T16:47:02.676+13:002017-01-13T16:47:02.676+13:00"Armies are terrible at occupation and police..."Armies are terrible at occupation and police work, they quickly dehumanise the occupied population and the desire for vigilantism undermines discipline and produces a military force capable of great barbarism, at the cost of military efficiency when they come across opponents who shoot back. The Israeli armies performance against Hizbollah in 2013 was abysmal, basic tactical errors, troops falling to easily into panics and lack of bold leadership all pointed to an army whose war fighting skills and discipline has been worn away."<br /><br />A masterly summary, Sanctuary.<br /><br />But, for all its lack of size, Israel is now a technological super-power and so the abilities of its infantry matter a lot less than in previous decades.<br /><br />I agree, however, that Yadin, Dayan or Rabin would weep if they could see how the IDF's fighting qualities had eroded. <br /><br />A question that intrigues me, though, is how Russia is going to square its newfound friendships with Israel and Turkey with its long standing attachment to the Iranian-led Shi-ite alliance. Add Trumkins to the mix and it becomes even more messy.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-57984057976643093062017-01-13T14:03:41.299+13:002017-01-13T14:03:41.299+13:00Fair Comment Victor
Not that I can claim any...Fair Comment Victor<br /><br /> Not that I can claim any particular knowledge beyond what everyone knows; But what can Russia / US do to stop the low level,home-made rocket attacks and incidental terrorist attacks that Israel is defending herself against? There seems not to be any authority that is organising this or in a position to stop it. Rather it seems to be at a level of the individual or very small groups.<br /> <br /> It seems to me the solution must be a world wide plan to comprehensively improve the lives and prospects of the displaced and disposed people of the refugee camps and Gaza, and give them hope.<br />Cheers David J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-29556464033500625982017-01-13T12:19:35.694+13:002017-01-13T12:19:35.694+13:00An excellent post, Chris.
One point I'd add i...An excellent post, Chris.<br /><br />One point I'd add is that (apart from east Jerusalem) the majority of Israelis have no great interest in holding on to the territories occupied in 1967, other than for security reasons.<br /><br />The Likud and most of its parliamentary allies, however, are all ideologically expansionist. The trick they've performed is to convince Israelis that they, and only they, are capable of keeping their country secure from enemies that are irrevocably bent on its destruction.<br /><br />Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis, Iran et al make this an easy trick to perform. But, just in case their enemies fall down on the job, the Israeli occupation forces have the ability to keep stoking a state of constant, low-intensity warfare, which is, inter alia, requisite for keeping Bibi and his bunch of opportunists and fanatics in power. <br /><br />Violence in the territories tends to surge between US presidential elections and inaugurations. It's long been my view that the enemies of peace on both sides make a point of ratcheting things up at that point in order to discourage and prevent an incoming US administration from pursuing a vigorous peace process on land rendered newly bitter by yet more blood. <br /><br />Interestingly, there hasn't been yet another war this time around, perhaps because Trump has made abundantly clear his lack of interest in what remains of any peace process.<br /><br />So Polly might be right. Putin and Trump might yet get their heads together and seek to impose a settlement on the area. If so, given the predelictions, prejudices and concerns of the two individuals involved, it will be a peace that's broadly acceptable to their mutual friend, Bibi.<br /><br />Obviously, the main losers will then (yet again) be the Palestinians. But another bunch of losers will be the people of Israel, whose democracy will continue to deteriorate and evaporate. And, of course, for these very reasons, the peace is unlikely to be robust, let alone permanent. <br /><br />That's how things will tend to be in the post-liberal world that's so suddenly taking shape.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43517964492006066712017-01-13T11:52:07.372+13:002017-01-13T11:52:07.372+13:00@ JH
The problem with the past approach of ...@ JH<br /><br /> The problem with the past approach of " fight till there's one side beaten<br /> and then there'e a truce declared"<br /> is that while Israel can easily exterminate the rest of Palestine, she would then be at war with the rest of the middle east. And the the US and Nato would be at war with the rest of the middle east on Israel's behalf ,( not that they aren't already). As Chris describes a solution seems as essential as it is impossible.<br />Cheers D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-90256270566473791962017-01-13T10:23:52.147+13:002017-01-13T10:23:52.147+13:00"So I wonder why Israel draws the SJW. "..."So I wonder why Israel draws the SJW. "<br /><br />I am so sick of this "SJW" business. As if social justice is some sort of joke. Or not worth bothering about. As far as I'm concerned you use those three letters you lose the Internet. The reason that us "social justice warriors" are drawn to Israel, is that it is a ticking time bomb in the Middle East. Which is where you "RWNJs" get the oil from that fuels your damned buses so you have a job. And to the extent you can't see this you are an idiot.<br /><br />"And what is it with the left that they think they own the Maori issue (to the degree that they can blend biculturalism with multiculturalism agencies necessitating a thurough take over of societies institutions)?"<br /><br />And how do you define "own" I've never heard of anybody saying they "own" this issue. Except maybe Maori. And they are probably entitled to. This just makes no sense.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-60653584330708646222017-01-13T05:00:33.065+13:002017-01-13T05:00:33.065+13:00The thing that intersts me about Israel is that it...The thing that intersts me about Israel is that it is the sort of problem that bloodshed solved (in the past). It may have seemed ruthless for one side to wipe the other out but it was also practical since no memories remain. <br />So I wonder why Israel draws the SJW. Is it that they think Israel is a moral issue and moral issues have a solution - the left seems to have a penchant for thinking they are the <i>mum </i> or <i>dad</i> figure at the World Kindergarten?<br />.....<br />And what is it with the left that they think they own the Maori issue (to the degree that they can blend biculturalism with multiculturalism agencies necessitating a thurough take over of societies institutions)?jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-34298407778833157592017-01-12T21:10:59.101+13:002017-01-12T21:10:59.101+13:00Sorry, Chris, but your argument constitutes little...Sorry, Chris, but your argument constitutes little more than a regurgitation of the old, fully-discredited Israeli version of Middle East history. More specifically - an utter Romanticisation of both: <br /><br />(1) The Aims and ideology of Pre-1967 Israel (particularly of the Israeli Labour Party Establishment and their close (at times, interchangeable) colleagues in the IDF))<br />and<br />(2) The Authenticity of Israel's "Purity of Arms" doctrine - a fiction best seen as a core component of Israel's long-term PR strategy. swordfishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24970560629997296462017-01-12T18:07:35.468+13:002017-01-12T18:07:35.468+13:00Polly!
You'r a Pollyanna too .
Cheers Da... Polly! <br /> You'r a Pollyanna too .<br />Cheers David J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58285058630671129232017-01-12T15:53:51.097+13:002017-01-12T15:53:51.097+13:00Guerilla Surgeon,
As my mate said to me, Bibi is ...Guerilla Surgeon,<br /><br />As my mate said to me, Bibi is out of for revenge for the death of brother Yoni during OP Thunderbolt in 1978 and Bibi has made no secret about either over the years.exkiwiforcesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-63990451281324276412017-01-12T08:33:53.773+13:002017-01-12T08:33:53.773+13:00A very good article,
I believe that both parties H...A very good article,<br />I believe that both parties Hamas / Israeli government should ask Putin and Trump to seek resolution for them on the matter.<br />There would be business and common sense injected.<br />That may happen.Pollynoreply@blogger.com