tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post3738131893111811106..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Behind The Mask: Who's Backing David Shearer - And Why?Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-79823619858525301002013-01-23T19:20:05.879+13:002013-01-23T19:20:05.879+13:00Great discussion prompted by a fascinating well th...Great discussion prompted by a fascinating well thought article, with the exception of the occasional personal attacks in some comments. <br /> I often think to myself that maybe ideology on all sides puts an idea ahead of people or what ever event comes by the way of happenstance.<br /> Flexibility and present mindedness seem to be drifting away.<br /> Either way how exciting to see parties slowly growing or dying. If a remember correctly when a party from the left dies away and is replaced by a new left the same thing happens to the right a few years down the track. <br /> New ideas shall abound.<br /><br /> Hopefully...B Stocksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89525108049723397842013-01-21T15:35:21.802+13:002013-01-21T15:35:21.802+13:00David Cunliffe left wing? Don't make me laugh!...David Cunliffe left wing? Don't make me laugh! The Labour Party isn't left wing, and hasn't been since Roger Douglas hijacked it. More's the pity, since NZ really needs a solid left-wing party that is unashamedly for the workers and ordinary people. Sadly, however, too many people have succumbed to the right-wing, neo-liberal, anti everyone but the rich and wannabe rich indoctrination that has been rampant since the 1980s.Lilahttp://www.lilarichards.webs.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24906415697543553432013-01-19T14:33:51.908+13:002013-01-19T14:33:51.908+13:00It is f------ depressing if you are a voter with a...It is f------ depressing if you are a voter with a social leaning who to vote for,for there are only two main players in the game,the other players, are for better or worse, just sub branches of either.<br /><br />Labour has been polling in the low 30s for some time now as the preference to governance and it has to be said,like it or not, their present leader along with their past lack lustre year in the house, is and has done them no favour.<br /><br />What is needed for Labour is a platform based on strong unflinching social policy that benefits all N.Z employed or not, not more of or lesser austere neo liberal policy that benefits those better than the lesser.<br /><br />Labour needs a strong voice, with mongrel and a fluent grasp of the issues, a voice that can debate harass and negate the voices and arguments of Key,Joyce and English.And for me that is Cunliffe. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-2805061909342156452013-01-18T15:14:00.982+13:002013-01-18T15:14:00.982+13:00To: Weis
Utter tosh, mate. I haven't "wh...To: Weis<br /><br />Utter tosh, mate. I haven't "wheeled" David Cunliffe anywhere.<br /><br />I went to hear him speak at Blockhouse Bay and for the first time EVER heard a senior Labour politician repudiate neoliberalism.<br /><br />That was good enough for me.<br /><br />When Shearer and his mates have done the same let me know and I'll have a think about changing my position.<br /><br />As for Cunliffe not being an intellectual - Jeez! The guy won a scholarship to Harvard FFS!<br /><br />And believe me, publicly attacking the NZLP leadership is NOT the way to "worm" your way back into the party hierarchy's favour - quite the reverse in fact!<br /><br />If I were you I'd get a little bit better informed before again launching myself into print .Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-69603995889121380302013-01-18T15:03:12.967+13:002013-01-18T15:03:12.967+13:00Cunliffe has never been a leftie! He's the onl...Cunliffe has never been a leftie! He's the only choice you have left because you don't like Shearer? Cunliffe hasn't done anything with the left until 12-18 months ago when you and a few others started wheeling him out at a few union bashes and he got a luke-warm reception at most because the working class had never heard of him??Is it because he's not an intellectual like you Chris? I remember some years ago when uncle Helen was about you wouldn't be able to get any mileage out of writing rubbish like this ... I'm guessing this is all this is, worming you're way back into the party hierarchy of sorts.<br />Look to be honest Labour might just as well work closely with the Greens because Russell Norman is the only one with the ability to think on his feet and provide some sound long term propositions for the way forward for the country. There is no one else at this crucial time.Weisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1093705483837021062013-01-18T14:48:30.894+13:002013-01-18T14:48:30.894+13:00Chris - your fifth-columnism for the NZ First Part...Chris - your fifth-columnism for the NZ First Party has to stop...Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07590751758610624011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-66720088146075103602013-01-15T08:40:47.793+13:002013-01-15T08:40:47.793+13:00I do not agree with your analysis.
Shearer is sim...I do not agree with your analysis.<br /><br />Shearer is simply a competent apparatchik who has been parachuted in because he "is not Cunliffe" and will not rock the sinecures of some present Labour caucus members.<br /><br />Unfortunately he has neither a clear view of a future more socially sustainable NZ nor the ability to lead us there.<br /><br />Which probably suits some in the hierarchy who are playing a long game for power, fine.KjThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13583435107822078614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-27986333083270373492013-01-13T20:56:46.536+13:002013-01-13T20:56:46.536+13:00Gnossienne said...
Thanks for this revealing and ...Gnossienne said...<br /><br />Thanks for this revealing and insightful article about Shearer. I think it's true that we have to be "genuinely sickened" by not only parliamentary politics but by all manner of theory in all areas including the arts and in our notions about the supremacy of reason and science.<br />Spengler noted years ago that democracy was no more than the political tool of money which no doubt earned him the hatred of the ideological left.<br />I think we are duped by all manner of sorcery including the play acting of present political stance. In a book also from another era called "Life Against Death" the American sociologist Norman O. Brown talks about the psychoanalytical meaning of history referencing Freud and the German mystic Jacob Boehme whose ideas influenced German philosophy. Boehme bears the stamp of influence from alchemy and Hermetisicm.<br />This may make some of us squirm but we are at an impasse at which old landmarks are disintegrating. Any political attempts from now on must also promote alternative understanding of the human condition or be consigned to the dustbin of history.<br />Gnossiennenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30480204643885282542013-01-13T20:18:59.489+13:002013-01-13T20:18:59.489+13:00You don't represent workers anymore than Keith...You don't represent workers anymore than Keith Locke represented "greens" Chris Trotter.<br />What we need to do is smoke you all out so we know what you stand for; the workforce have a right to correct labelling on the entity that claims to represent them. Many of you would agree (apparently)with professor Spoonley that diversity is "absolutely essential" for New Zealand's economic well being and that population growth is necessary for economic well being and moral ('leftists of an internationalist tradition have always favoured globalization and getting rid of national borders and barriers to migration.")? jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-86789211509706673232013-01-13T03:24:24.064+13:002013-01-13T03:24:24.064+13:00The growth of the Greens will be the closest thing...The growth of the Greens will be the closest thing to political optimism for the short term. The elite will play on pre-seeded populism and generate financial hysteria to discredit Green politics. Then back to decline and nationalist propaganda with [Labour / National]. <br /><br />People have tired of parliamentary politics, but they aren't yet genuinely sickened by it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-78561471424094773342013-01-12T21:10:05.984+13:002013-01-12T21:10:05.984+13:00Methinks that February 2013 is gong to decide the ...Methinks that February 2013 is gong to decide the future of the Labour Party and (probably) condemn us to a decade of National Party rule (shudder). Shearer is merely the tip of an about to capsize iceberg, (icebergs actually do that.)<br /><br />Muldoon actually got voted out.<br />The Berlin Wall actually came down.<br />Rogernomics actually happened.<br /><br />The Labour Party caucus actually comes into contact with its voters wishes? Hmmmmmm...peterpeasanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07258344040688251441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-57550458120740347762013-01-12T14:17:42.292+13:002013-01-12T14:17:42.292+13:00The Whiteboard
Maybe it's not primarily about...The Whiteboard<br /><br />Maybe it's not primarily about ideology but about competence. <br /><br />But maybe competence in articulating and synthesising ideas and priorities morphs inevitably into an ideological position.<br /><br />Certainly, at a time such as this, when the moth-eaten nostrums of neo-liberalism have lost all plausibility, a competent social democratic politician, with a concern for policy, might well be feeling his or her way leftwards. <br /><br />That would explain why Cunliffe seems more left-wing today than a few years ago. The question remains as to why this is not also true of Shearer and his allies. <br /><br />Not all of them lack competence. So I can only assume that patch protectionism and the dear old Kiwi tall poppy syndrome count for more with them than the long term welfare of the nation. <br /><br />I write, I should add, not as a socialist but as a very moderate social democrat, who nevertheless recognises that a time of global economic crisis creates both new challenges and new opportunities.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-57751060409426462182013-01-12T11:19:17.553+13:002013-01-12T11:19:17.553+13:00Chris
What you demonstrate here (again) is the ban...Chris<br />What you demonstrate here (again) is the bankruptcy of the Labour Party. <br /><br />So, I ask myself, on what basis does it hold its place in Parliament as the main opposition? Our memory of what our hopes once were; it's ability to cling on to a few shreds of progressive social policy; and the fact of it being the lesser of two evils.<br /><br />Yet those memories and other perceptions are simply self-deception, or wishful thinking if you like. How can anyone who thinks of themselves as a social democrat seriously vote for a party which has consistently run a neoliberal economic policy agenda for 28 years?<br /><br />Well I suspect that the really cool progressives were told at university that we live in post-ideological times, that grand ideas like "social democracy" or even "socialism" are dead. So all they can do is "manage" from moment to moment. <br /><br />But it's a shame no-one told the New Right that ideology was dead because we're rapidly heading for their particularly ideological version of society - minimal social security, ever-widening inequality, for-profit education, a "flexible", insecure and unprotected workforce, and so on. And there really seems to be very little standing in their way.<br /><br />At this moment, Labour is just a hindrance, a fake opposition which really is no opposition at all. <br /><br />It is time for us to wake up, recognise the act of flogging a dead horse when we see it, and call the knacker's yard. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30178420089501533882013-01-11T19:18:03.745+13:002013-01-11T19:18:03.745+13:00I agree with your sentiment Chris. Labour has had ...I agree with your sentiment Chris. Labour has had it's day as a valid party with a unique political voice. It simply won't let go of Rogernomics.<br /><br />It's time for people who truly believe in economic fairness and the environment to turn to the Green party - it has consistently shown it is a progressive alternative to the parties on the political right (Labour included). MH Waitakerenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-38251463278745357502013-01-11T18:10:33.290+13:002013-01-11T18:10:33.290+13:00Chris - David was in the 'fog of war' when...Chris - David was in the 'fog of war' when he wrote this - he is obviously a student of Clausewitz ... (War is an area of uncertainty; three quarters of the things on which all action in War is based are lying in a fog of uncertainty to a greater or lesser extent. The first thing (needed) here is a fine, piercing mind, to feel out the truth with the measure of its judgment).<br /><br />And Shearer expressed just when he wrote paper: different purpose - different dynamics: <br /><br />Today he is demonstrating his uncertainty operating in nz's geo- politics <br /><br />shearer is not sure if/how every participant MP is engaged - it is not a war to them - they are buried in the fog of keeping their jobs safe .. suspect shearer could walk away & rejoice ...<br /><br />He should put brooding Cunniliffe back on board ASAP -- let him be the aggressor - to replace the boring trevor mallard - who is so predicable .. & has little to offer & attract new members ...<br /><br />diana and friends<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30513807516349616202013-01-11T17:25:00.699+13:002013-01-11T17:25:00.699+13:00Yours is a very different picture of David Cunliff...Yours is a very different picture of David Cunliffe from that given by Phil Taylor in The Other David (NZ Herald Nov 2012.<br /><br />http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10849606<br /><br />Is what divides Cunliffe and Shearer a real left-right tension, or simply realpolitik? Is your Cunliffe simply another simulacrum.<br /> <br />The opaqueness of it all is so dreary.The Whiteboardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715495357806106609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-85351678119931401442013-01-11T15:13:50.503+13:002013-01-11T15:13:50.503+13:00Great article Chris.
Pick up the facebook link f...Great article Chris. <br /><br />Pick up the facebook link from Anon 9.28am, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1390286135969744182013-01-11T13:00:52.784+13:002013-01-11T13:00:52.784+13:00When was the last time you heard a politician give...When was the last time you heard a politician give specifics about policy. It's pretty rare these days particularly outside an election year. Be nice if ALL these people told us exactly where they stand. Refreshing if someone actually cut through the bullshit we're contantly fed - which incidentally an insult.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-74954096665477853582013-01-11T12:54:56.246+13:002013-01-11T12:54:56.246+13:00Chris
I agree that it's so much harder to sou...Chris<br /><br />I agree that it's so much harder to sound fresh and new when articulating neo-liberal bunkum these days than it was back in the early 1990s.<br /><br />But I suspect there's an additional cause for the morphing of a once incisive advocate of outsourcing armed force into the Shambling Shearer we know and wince over.<br /><br />He's got older. It happens. I know from experience that I'm not the man I was when a mere stripling of 65. Moreover, some of us age more rapidly than others and Shearer certainly doesn't seem to be a particularly youthful 56 year old. <br /><br />Of course, some politicians achieve maximum effectiveness at the age when others are ripe for retirement. Churchill, Adenauer and Savage all come to mind in this context. But there's absolutely no sign that poor old Shambles is one of them. <br /><br />And so it remains a mystery to me as to why even Labour's Rogergnome rump ever saw Shambles as the party's last, best hope.Victornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89734075844383547502013-01-11T11:31:39.501+13:002013-01-11T11:31:39.501+13:00Anonymous 12:53 AM
Democracy isn’t a waste of tim...Anonymous 12:53 AM<br /><br />Democracy isn’t a waste of time; but it is in need of a good overhaul.<br /><br />Today, money is progressively replacing people in democracy, rendering it more a hybrid democracy/ plutocracy.<br /><br />“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” – Sir Winston Churchill.<br /><br />“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” – Sir Winston Churchill.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-19320866535658436182013-01-11T10:51:11.040+13:002013-01-11T10:51:11.040+13:00Another excellent article examining the Shearer en...Another excellent article examining the Shearer enigma.<br /><br />Your forecast will probably be correct; more right-wing orthodoxy is to be expected. Considering the many it has failed subsequently filling the ranks of the underclass, little or no salvation is to be gained in a Shearer victory for them.<br /><br />With the problems flourishing due in part to the lack of innovation, the beneficiaries and supporters of neoliberalism should realise the risk in merely preserving the status quo.<br /><br />When change ferments from the lower levels the future doesn’t bode well for them, or ultimately anyone, with the chaos that usually entails such change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-52769498496913705092013-01-11T09:28:39.144+13:002013-01-11T09:28:39.144+13:00http://www.facebook.com/pages/Say-No-To-Asset-Sale...http://www.facebook.com/pages/Say-No-To-Asset-Sales/295405483895764<br /><br />Or search "Facebook Say No To Asset Sales"<br /><br />The neoliberal agenda is the problem, as Chris points out. It is alive in the big political parties, attractive in parts even in the small ones.<br /><br />The rally on Feb 13 has support from conservatives through liberal opinion to the left. Disrupting the current consensus is a beginning, but I think it also creates space for other possibilities to arise. These possibilities will not easily arise in an environment dominated by big political parties.<br /><br />I don't think there'll be any actual politicians addressing the crowd in Wellington.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-70484453157461814412013-01-11T00:53:14.955+13:002013-01-11T00:53:14.955+13:00"...is, however, possible to discern in the 2..."...is, however, possible to discern in the 2008-09 collapse of global prosperity amidst multiple and linked financial crises the initiation of a new climate of stress leading inevitably to yet another period of radical political, economic and social change."<br /><br />It's not going to happen. Politics doesn't work that way any more. What's going to happen is years more of cuts and privatizations no matter who gets in. Labour aren't pandering to the right for ideological reasons, but because that's where the votes are, and the votes are there because most NZers are mentally defective authoritarians. <br /><br />It's been decades now. How long is it going to take you to understand that democracy is a waste of time? It's just American Idol for old, ugly people. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17910537441057195322013-01-10T22:54:33.534+13:002013-01-10T22:54:33.534+13:00Chris
If you really believe that David Shearer is...Chris<br /><br />If you really believe that David Shearer is the 'wolf in sheep's clothing" that you have made him out to be, then it must be very depressing for those on the political left.<br /><br />However, if what you have outlined is all in the pubic domain as you suggest, then how does someone who fits your description get to become elected leader of the Labour party? Are you the only one to have connected the dots?<br /><br />If he is all that you suggest, then he would make a welcome change from the timid 'conservatives' we presently have holding office. I have a deep respect for conviction politicians, who do believe that it is "more important to make a difference than to get re-elected."<br /><br />If you are not making a difference in accord with your core values, then why are you in parliament in the first place? Such politicians are so rare, that I welcome their presence on either side of the house. Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-59003874389051811232013-01-10T20:27:51.417+13:002013-01-10T20:27:51.417+13:00Kool ChrisKool ChrisRogue Troopernoreply@blogger.com