tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post484198185108930105..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Swamp Things: The Political “Centre” Contains Only What The Left And The Right Put Into It.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-21544116252823146082015-08-25T15:12:05.299+12:002015-08-25T15:12:05.299+12:00Muldoon would have eaten the bugger alive, Grant. ...Muldoon would have eaten the bugger alive, Grant. The only time I ever saw him being told anything to his face was by university students when he came to speak on campus. And even then, it was probably safety in numbers :-).Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-54298949072555237972015-08-25T07:55:07.774+12:002015-08-25T07:55:07.774+12:00Wayne.
So the answer to both my questions is &qu...Wayne. <br /><br />So the answer to both my questions is "No".Grantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-20549375113653389162015-08-24T17:49:15.189+12:002015-08-24T17:49:15.189+12:00Grant,
I did say to National party people when I ...Grant,<br /><br />I did say to National party people when I joined in 1982 that I was joining in spite of Muldoon, not because of him. And I said that in any event he is in his last term as PM and is not the future of the National Party. So people, in the National Party, including some who were very senior, knew my views. Wayne Mapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906396523791648270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-14118740958131431762015-08-24T15:42:10.894+12:002015-08-24T15:42:10.894+12:00Anonymous (09:32 24 August)
"Jeremy arrives a...Anonymous (09:32 24 August)<br />"Jeremy arrives and agrees with policies which will...lose them the next election by a landslide, but he agrees with the "deep thinkers" of the far left..." (and on and on ad nauseam)<br /><br />Hate to break it to you, Sport, but UK opinion polls suggest many of Corbyn's key policy proposals actually have majority support. Anti-austerity, bringing railways and energy companies into public ownership, rent controls, higher taxes for the super-wealthy, mandatory living wage, cuts to tuition fees, nuclear weapons control, along with his previous opposition to the Iraq War and bombing of Syria - on all these issues, Corbyn is entirely in tune with public opinion (in stark contrast to the Blairite/Tory Establishment you so adore). So, in fact, you're describing not so much the intellectual Left but rather a clear majority of the British population as "barking mad" and "far left". You really do need to move in wider social circles.<br /><br />For recent poll stats revealing UK voters' positive attitudes to nationalising key assets and utilities (with breakdowns by party support) - have a look at my (swordfish) comment two-thirds of the way down Colonial Viper's post on THE STANDARD ('Hard Left Corbyn receives public backing from 41 leading economists').<br /><br />markus/swordfishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-42975251729587983092015-08-24T12:57:40.658+12:002015-08-24T12:57:40.658+12:00Funny how when people begin supporting a leader th...Funny how when people begin supporting a leader the right don't like they suddenly become "easily led". As I said, I've had experience of this before. It is pure bullshit, and as usual presented without any evidence whatsoever. It never seems to occur to them that people are supporting Corbyn because they agree with his policies. It can't be that, because they don't like his policies. So it's got to be some sort of hypnotic hold. If anyone however is easily led, it's those drones who don't even think about politics in any meaningful way. Those National party supporters who vote ACT in Epsom for instance because they are told to. Now that's easily led :-).Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89214972933233319002015-08-24T12:22:05.719+12:002015-08-24T12:22:05.719+12:00the disdain you heap upon the centre Chris is stra...the disdain you heap upon the centre Chris is strangely similar to the way they are treated by our political elite, whom curiously you berate for that very fact.pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-29696544217101826582015-08-24T12:01:40.398+12:002015-08-24T12:01:40.398+12:00This notion of politicians targeting the centre, i...This notion of politicians targeting the centre, is at the heart of the default position of politics today. Karl Rove and now Crosby and Textor have developed their poisonous art of targeting which has been enabled by the might of the computer. Rove was plotted decades ago defining where the most swinging voters could be found, which demographic, location etc. and smoozing them about their own interests. Now the personal, individual consideration is paramount, not what's good for the country, for people's and animals wellbeing, for job and financial stability.<br /><br />This morning Hooton commented on the worksafe legislation in line with how many National voters would care about risks to workers as they were not affected. A prime example of the lack of integrity and selfish-centredness that present political thinking and direction encourages. What about the country the oddballs cry!<br /><br />In future I am not bothering to read what Anonymice say. You all look the same to me, invisible men I would imagine. But what you say Chris is always interesting and owned by you.greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-56900008151377731862015-08-24T11:50:23.455+12:002015-08-24T11:50:23.455+12:00Jeremy Corbyn has been in parliament since the 198...Jeremy Corbyn has been in parliament since the 1980's hes never served on the front bench and he is regarded with contempt as a crusty old socialist by almost all of his party. He rebelled repeatedly against his party under Tony 'the saviour' Blair. <br /><br />I totally understand how such and uncompromising old Trot can fire up the base, but how is this crazy old Beardy going to come across to the normal 95%, let alone shift the centre to the left - this has got to be your best work of fiction yet Trotter and its full of mirth and humour - Im nominating you for the man booker. <br /><br />Hang onto your day job Chris Im not expecting Labour to shaft Salmond to hire you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-46458716286813348382015-08-24T11:41:10.861+12:002015-08-24T11:41:10.861+12:00Chris is right. We who love politics cannot respec...Chris is right. We who love politics cannot respect the so called middle, although referring to them as swamp dwellers is novel. Are they not the modern 'masses'? Those people easily led by seemingly inspirational leaders, yet often dangerous people, like the murderous communists and fascists (the same really)of the bad old days. When they get traction it is the swamp that they hypnotise and turn into a 'movement' which usually ends in gulags and or genocide. Those who were always on solid ground at either side more often form the minority opposition to these awful mass movements. We have to then go underground to destroy the cancer of mass appeal.<br />Such stampedes or plagues are always disasters so be careful what you wish for Chris. When Tories wish Corbyn well too, watch out as we do so for the fun of it and knowing he may destroy Labour. He is no great speaker I hear though, so perhaps he will flower then shrivel. As farmers say, every dog has his day. Go Corbyn!<br />Chales Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-82010530249079842452015-08-24T09:58:13.817+12:002015-08-24T09:58:13.817+12:00It should be noted that Labour, under Corbyn, woul...It should be noted that Labour, under Corbyn, would not have to win an absolute majority; just enough to form a coalition government with the Scottish Nationalists and the LibDems. (The latter's dalliance with the Tories was not exactly a rip roaring success.) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25482143524613499902015-08-24T09:32:09.403+12:002015-08-24T09:32:09.403+12:00Hard to disagree Wayne, I think the lefts obsessio...Hard to disagree Wayne, I think the lefts obsession with Jermy and the claim that he will move the 'Overton Window' left is not so much myopia as intellectual narcissism and resentment at being regarded as barking mad by 99% of the population. Jeremy arrives and agrees with policies which will split his party and lose them the next election by a landslide. but he agrees with the "deep thinkers" of the far left and makes them feel less like the mad political hermits they are - and the dances of ecstasy begin.<br /><br />I think between Jeremy the beardie and Nicola the Scottish serpent we should see the UK Labour party split into 2 and get the biggest drubbing in they're history, twill be a beautiful thing, with the bonus that Labour under Corbyn will wipe out the greens Hooooooooray Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-48965616821415323812015-08-24T08:25:14.180+12:002015-08-24T08:25:14.180+12:00Blair quite possibly knew what moved the British e...Blair quite possibly knew what moved the British electorate at the time. But what seems to have been forgotten by most people on the right is that – firstly he actually lied to get British involvement in a war. LIED. Which shows at the very least a lack of ethics greater than the average politician, where the bar is reasonably low anyway. And secondly, today he owns a company which provides PR advice for dictators. I mean for fuck's sake – words almost fail me – not common I know. I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say he was a war criminal, but the man should be shunned and reviled by every ethical person.<br />And now he's become part of a debate about so-called purity versus electoral success. I don't think there are too many people who don't believe that politics needs compromise. Even Corbyn. But obviously the man is expressing a view that many people broadly agree with. And the choosing of a British Labour Party leader is at least as democratic as anything we have here. Bugger it I think they should give the man a chance.<br />You see, when you guys crap on about Stalinism, and Helengrad, New Zealand being like Cuba, and the rest of those exaggerations, you tend to lose credibility when it comes to criticising people from the left :-).Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-28040380006322974622015-08-24T05:00:34.482+12:002015-08-24T05:00:34.482+12:00Of course the 'Centre' is the lowest commo...Of course the 'Centre' is the lowest common denominator, by definiton!<br /><br />Corbyn's emerging economic policies are now getting serious approval: www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/22/jeremy-corbyn-economists-backing-anti-austerity-policies-corbynomics<br /><br />GregAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1559160523755904762015-08-23T23:27:36.279+12:002015-08-23T23:27:36.279+12:00Corbyn is a rarity these days. He believes in dem...Corbyn is a rarity these days. He believes in democracy. This is very uncomfortable for those on the right (they are never wrong and should never be be questioned, after all they are born to rule.)<br /><br />The NZLP caucus has long ignored the membership base that put them where they are and wonder about the missing non voters at General Elections.<br /><br />Of course Corbyn pisses people off. Neither the left or the right appreciate being called to account by the people who put them in power.<br /><br />Drug addicts often resent and renege on paying for their drugs.<br /><br />Political power is a powerful aphrodisiac.<br /><br />Corbyn is a breath of welcome fresh air in a smug bound establishment britain.<br /><br />Some of the posts above seem planted as diversions (successfully, given responses).<br /><br />How it all plays out promises to be great political theatre, of some marginal interest to nz. WE do not have a Corbyn in our political midst.peterlepaysanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14707848102966641049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-71286061649849037252015-08-23T22:59:25.192+12:002015-08-23T22:59:25.192+12:00@Wayne. Did you have the courage to make that comm...@Wayne. Did you have the courage to make that comment about Muldoon to his face? Did you make it publicly at all while he was alive? Thought not.Grantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-60189718814900174102015-08-23T22:09:16.799+12:002015-08-23T22:09:16.799+12:00In fact there is a post at Counterpunch about this...In fact there is a post at Counterpunch about this very thing. Very droll but very true.<br /><br />http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/21/panic-attackers-grass-roots-challenge-sparks-high-level-hissy-fit/Bushbaptisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09657695593141243969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41015266527329997192015-08-23T19:03:21.360+12:002015-08-23T19:03:21.360+12:00Well, at least on this part of the Right, the rise...Well, at least on this part of the Right, the rise of Corbyn is viewed with bemusement, not fear. It simply seems baffling that UK Labour is apparently quite keen to spend till 2025 in opposition. <br />Of course the Conservatives had 13 years in opposition from 1997 to 2010 whilst the the Labour Leader most despised by the left successfully captured the centre. Now all the Lefties, both here and in the UK claim that Blair doesn't have the first clue about what moves the British electorate. If that is what they think, why disturb their myopia.<br />At least the Right respects political success. Even Muldoon, at least in his last term, possibly the worst Prime Minister since WW2, does not evoke the hatred of National supporters that Blair seems to provoke, both here and in the UK.Wayne Mapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906396523791648270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-75639177814504605202015-08-23T17:44:33.329+12:002015-08-23T17:44:33.329+12:00@Anon 13.39: I need to clarify what is being said ...@Anon 13.39: I need to clarify what is being said here but I won't take it any further after this comment as we are digressing again.<br /><br />You claimed that Bush didn't attack civilians well, what about Fallujah? What about the tonnes of white phosphorus that the Yanx used in defiance of the Geneva Convention on the use of it? What about the civilians who were trapped in the city and couldn't leave? What about the tens of thousands of Iraqis who have died because Bush/Blair deliberately lied? <br /><br />Israel is the last Great Oklahoma Land Grab. If you don't know what that means research it. You seem to studiously ignore the attacks on Gaza by Israel including a UN school sheltering civilians, shooting fish in barrel. The civilians have no where to escape to. <br /><br />Corbyn has sympathies for the Palestinian people who have been Ethnically Cleansed from the land that they have owned and occupied for thousands of years. Good for him.Bushbaptisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09657695593141243969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-74490822740048305192015-08-23T15:59:33.416+12:002015-08-23T15:59:33.416+12:00To describe them as "bedmates" is either...To describe them as "bedmates" is either ignorant or disingenuous. Depending on who you mean of course. But it seems to me you are probably meaning the Palestinians who are fighting a war against Israeli occupation. Corbyn like most politicians meets hundreds if not thousands of people every year. Who of us can forget the slightly puzzled look followed by a smarmy 'hello' most politicians will give you if you stare at them long enough – in case you are important enough not to be forgotten :-). Anyway, a group of prominent Jews has written a letter expressing their support for him, and their disbelief of the anti-Semitic label.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-32192260533944777092015-08-23T15:18:29.998+12:002015-08-23T15:18:29.998+12:00Jeremy Cobyn sees no down side to mass migration. ...Jeremy Cobyn sees no down side to mass migration. This is an issue a lot of people on the left are in denial about. Labour made Britain less British by design and the people who care most about that are working class. The multiculturalism movement is a top down one held in place by power structures.<br />Tell the hapu who dobbed in the Ma family for taking way over their cockle limit that we must "celebrate diversity" (masturbation say I)!jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-7814712075970268122015-08-23T14:36:46.986+12:002015-08-23T14:36:46.986+12:00It is really enlightening to watch the establishme...It is really enlightening to watch the establishment going bonkers over the prospect that an old fashioned social democrat who would have been politically dead centre 30 years ago might actually win the leadership of the UK Labour Party. That is where Blair has taken the party. It is now - at least the leadership so far right that the centre by definition must now be extreme left.<br />The hardcore neo-liberals will never admit that it is them who are the extremist.ZealandiaBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06898041455232750938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-36811332036851929162015-08-23T13:39:55.357+12:002015-08-23T13:39:55.357+12:00Stephanie said: @ Bushbaptist. The difference is t...Stephanie said: @ Bushbaptist. The difference is that Cobyn's bedmates are killing people right now, and are determined to continue. Also, they deliberately target civilians, and kill Jews and Christians for being Jews and Christians. I'm no Bush fan, but he didn't try to commit genocide. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-20234884543265627072015-08-23T11:51:09.089+12:002015-08-23T11:51:09.089+12:00@ Grant 23/8 10.53
self delusion and deception are...@ Grant 23/8 10.53<br />self delusion and deception are hallmarks of dictators (or wanabes)pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727942156598555852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41243344137815184382015-08-23T11:24:34.390+12:002015-08-23T11:24:34.390+12:00@jh 7.32 "Might not the center demonstrate th...@jh 7.32 "Might not the center demonstrate the wisdom of crowds?"<br /><br />Given that it is possible to fool all of the people some of the time and all of the people some of the time, it is just as likely that the centre can represent the folly of crowds.Grantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-5650562878542965482015-08-23T10:53:28.868+12:002015-08-23T10:53:28.868+12:00I was idly browsing through my Oxford Dictionary O...I was idly browsing through my Oxford Dictionary Of Quotations last night and came across this little pearler from Oswald Mosley (English fascist leader in the 1930's):<br /><br />"I am not, and never have been, a man of the right. My position was on the left and is now in the centre of politics". (Letter to The Times 26 April 1968)<br /><br />Clearly even the exponents of the most extreme viewpoints like to be thought of as centrist.Grantnoreply@blogger.com