tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post7816644745154244949..comments2024-03-29T17:12:19.648+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: The Difference Between Jeremy And Jacinda, Is The Difference Between Government And Governance.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-52873852959739714452017-10-09T14:46:36.242+13:002017-10-09T14:46:36.242+13:00Guerilla Surgeon - please explain "true So...Guerilla Surgeon - please explain "true Socialism" if it has not been in existence anywhere yet, preferably with an example where it has come closest to it ?Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17304734497662325275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-5601866046210892212017-10-08T14:45:45.264+13:002017-10-08T14:45:45.264+13:00Jens. On the grounds that I don't usually enga...Jens. On the grounds that I don't usually engage in long arguments with Social Creditors or Blairites or whatever the combination of the two you are, any more than I do with Scientologists.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-18021530299264567102017-10-07T10:50:44.808+13:002017-10-07T10:50:44.808+13:00Guerilla Surgeon - on what grounds can you say ...Guerilla Surgeon - on what grounds can you say that a society of capital owners is not more democratic and egalitarian, than the status quo of "Haves" and "Have-Nots" ?Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17304734497662325275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3061015348395604012017-10-05T21:07:32.535+13:002017-10-05T21:07:32.535+13:00Bryan Gould. I've been scouring for a Corbyn/S...Bryan Gould. I've been scouring for a Corbyn/Sanders figure myself. Right amid 'Jacindamania' I offered him the leadership of the Labour Party. Don't think he printed my comment.sumsuchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-52228618375647816732017-10-04T18:55:22.428+13:002017-10-04T18:55:22.428+13:00Hopefully the Nacts believe what you write Chris a...Hopefully the Nacts believe what you write Chris and become so confused they spin out and end up not knowing if they are coming or going.<br /><br />Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-61621534420224954112017-10-04T18:46:13.530+13:002017-10-04T18:46:13.530+13:00The critique you make of a limp and dare I say it ...The critique you make of a limp and dare I say it insipid and timid Labour <br />and superficial Labour is on point. No charter writ large, or small for that matter to address for example the bitter poverty in South Auckland, or the slow subsidence and dispair in Dannieverke or Invercargill. If the intent to put into motion some specific enabling policies now....and even if a deal is reached with NZ First its content will be pallid and mediocre......and one suspects the calibre of their cabinet ministers problematic and short on experience.<br /><br />The point about the left wing of Labour having decamped with Anderton is true and is <br />unable to be remediated. The former NSW Senator Graham Richardson said it best when speaking of the elected Senators and Members of the Lower House- " they may be bastards but they are our bastards".<br /><br />The real concern a lack of actual commitment by today's Labour to any radical change, but being solely intent on staying on the Treasury benches.<br /><br />Time and the shape of any agreement struck with NZ First will tell if they are "our bastards or not?".Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05129687772040675534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-44514110482880713362017-10-04T18:33:13.160+13:002017-10-04T18:33:13.160+13:00Funny how conservatives like Charles always seem t...Funny how conservatives like Charles always seem to mention failed "socialist" states while completely ignoring the failed conservative states. Our nevermind – why would I expect rationality?Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-13840452353338764232017-10-04T18:27:38.325+13:002017-10-04T18:27:38.325+13:00One thing I would point out though - apart from a ...One thing I would point out though - apart from a couple of odd periods (1916-1933 and 1984-1988), New Zealand Labour has never been the party of radical change. It's the party of fixing (not overturning) the status quo.<br /><br />British Labour by contrast has been in a cheerful state of civil war since its inception, lacking the autocratic framework that typifies New Zealand Labour (seriously, both John A. Lee and Jim Anderton would have remained within a British Labour Party). The closest New Zealand Labour has to any sort of heterodoxy is Damien O'Connor. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-71638314388813711822017-10-04T16:02:11.977+13:002017-10-04T16:02:11.977+13:00Chris,
a well thought out and written piece;
MMP ...Chris,<br />a well thought out and written piece;<br /><br />MMP brings Labour to its knees, begging to NZF for government benches. <br />Winnie, if agreeable, will be skillfull, sly and master-full, he will. of course, be in control of a NZF/ Labour/ Green coalition government.<br /><br />Jacinda and Grant, both who are office trained, will pretend a unified government.<br /><br />We will all be fucked to get a brighter future.<br /><br />God save the Queen and New Zealand.<br /><br />"ain't them the facts"Pollynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24061721089993522152017-10-04T13:54:29.786+13:002017-10-04T13:54:29.786+13:00@ Jens Meder
"But has not histor...@ Jens Meder<br /> <br /> <br /> "But has not history proven that the state monopoly capitalism under true Socialism (i.e. the social ownership of the means of production ) is less democratic and economically effective than our mixed capitalism ?"<br /><br /> No I don't think history has ever had the opportunity to prove or disprove that. That structure has never been put in place under democracy , it has only ever been in place under a military dictatorship. Attempts to establish that kind of system under a democratically elected government / president in South America, Korea, Vietnam etc. have been systematically destroyed by the United States of America , and they are still at it all over the world.<br /><br />D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-12257793653785856162017-10-04T13:44:51.044+13:002017-10-04T13:44:51.044+13:00"But has not history proven that the state mo..."But has not history proven that the state monopoly capitalism under true Socialism (i.e. the social ownership of the means of production ) is less democratic and economically effective than our mixed capitalism ?"<br /><br />Yes, but who is aiming for what you call true Socialism? I suspect no one.<br /><br />"And would not our mixed capitalism become even more democratic in an egalitarian way through a systematic effort to achieve at least a minimally meaningful level (e.g. at home ownership value?) of personal (retirement) capital ownership by all citizens eventually ?"<br /><br />No.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4889147555863622092017-10-04T13:37:01.723+13:002017-10-04T13:37:01.723+13:00Ardern lost the election with the 'we're w...Ardern lost the election with the 'we're waiting on the working group' of 'experts' to give us 'best advice on tax' bullshit.<br /><br />Plain and simple.Sluggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3452718426121715282017-10-04T12:10:42.337+13:002017-10-04T12:10:42.337+13:00And following on from Jens, would not good governa...And following on from Jens, would not good governance be exactly what a good leader and her party should provide? The failed policies of socialism are exactly what all wise people want to avoid forever and a day. That way lies disaster for ordinary folks everywhere. We can all see that in a live and current demo in that fabulous workers’ paradise in Sth America the likes of Skinner & Corbyn will have praised in the past and are silent on now as their mates kill their own people and starve the rest.<br /><br />The reason we will thank heavens not see the woeful Skinner or the Madura-like Corbyn here ever again is we are not a country who needs anything like them again and never did. They were always completely out of place here. Foreign frauds.<br /><br />The trouble with some on the left here is they read the Guardian and think that it has relevance here in what is a very different and much much better country than the UK now, and perhaps for a generation or two now. We are a success (with issues we can do better on, yes), socially, economically and politically and the UK.... is not. I have just had 2 weeks there and could not wait to get home. Outside London in the south I liked it a lot. Rural England is pretty nice. But London is run down, over crowded, mostly poor, hopeless and a very divided testy populous.<br /><br />They could do with a long dose of the good governance we have thrived under for the last 18 years and will continue to enjoy as long as wreckers like Skinner and Corbyn are kept where they belong: In horror museums, dedicated to what to avoid in governance at all cost.<br />Charles Enoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-65710300140870385652017-10-04T11:27:00.381+13:002017-10-04T11:27:00.381+13:00Do we overlook the fact that European New Zealande...Do we overlook the fact that European New Zealanders will soon be a minority in Auckland and that our utopian socialist left brought that on us?<br />I see on Kiwiblog someone argues that demographic change makes no difference as Vancouver is rated as one of the worlds most livable cities? what if you can't afford to live there and what if you are in crummy living circumstances? What about all those inner suburbs that were once working class? - Over to you Paul Spoonley?jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16450151306270160062017-10-04T11:12:55.679+13:002017-10-04T11:12:55.679+13:00The thing is, does this class politics have appeal...The thing is, does this class politics have appeal in a multicultural society? Remember it isn't about the white left anymore.<br />Yesterday Nine to noon featured an employers representative from an international organisation.Her views mirror the internationalist left: 1. migrants have net fiscal benefit 2. they don't reduce wages.jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-9949090149735206622017-10-04T09:19:41.068+13:002017-10-04T09:19:41.068+13:00But has not history proven that the state monopol...But has not history proven that the state monopoly capitalism under true Socialism (i.e. the social ownership of the means of production ) is less democratic and economically effective than our mixed capitalism ?<br /><br />And would not our mixed capitalism become even more democratic in an egalitarian way through a systematic effort to achieve at least a minimally meaningful level (e.g. at home ownership value?) of personal (retirement) capital ownership by all citizens eventually ?<br /><br />Jens Mederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17304734497662325275noreply@blogger.com