tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post8831106876314250662..comments2024-03-29T11:07:51.893+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: A Grand Coalition For Peace, Unity and Democracy.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-53245936845833776342022-08-08T16:36:57.561+12:002022-08-08T16:36:57.561+12:00Back with the racist nonsense again I see kit? Thr...Back with the racist nonsense again I see kit? Throwing around civilisation like it meant something. So if Maori have no institutions applicable to civilisation, then neither do Germans, Poles, Hungarians, Indians, Russians, and indeed many Brits. After all, Maori might have done some bad things in the past but probably nothing quite approaches the "civilisation" of Nazi Germany.<br />And "White Supremacists want minimal change to the status quo"? Did you actually realise what you were saying there?Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-46050866572914090662022-08-05T22:50:20.467+12:002022-08-05T22:50:20.467+12:00Both White Supremacists and Maori Nationalists are...Both White Supremacists and Maori Nationalists are on the extreme Right, echoing the ethnonationalism of the Nationalsozialismus, mutatis mutandis. Limp liberals support Maori Nationalism while dreaming of the Noble Savage of Arcadia, and revanchist Maoris dream of a rentier status free of civilisational responsibility. There’s irony that the Left is now defined not by its traditional support for the poor and the working class, but by the ethnicity of those protagonists. But White Supremacists have none of Maori ethnonationalists’ resources – financial, ideological, teleological, governmental, educational, MSM support, and the single-minded dedication of its members – to have any influence whatsoever. It’s Spoonley’s straw man, based on an exception – Tarrant – not a rule. The difference between two is telling, however. White Supremacists want minimal change to the status quo, Maori Nationalists the maximum. Borne in mind too, should be the issue of institutions. Maoris have none applicable to civilisation and rely totally on those introduced by Europeans for success in the modern world. Changes forced on institutions by matauranga Maori have already served to weaken them, a process that will accelerate. <br /><br />Cui plagalis? Civilisation, plus yours truly and perhaps others, forced by the destructive insanity of the woke Left into the ordure of my maiden National vote.<br />Kit Slaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442343410371307800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58896903475218538622022-08-05T08:55:41.001+12:002022-08-05T08:55:41.001+12:00As it turns out, find I had Walter's book unre...As it turns out, find I had Walter's book unread for some reason on my Kindle. Now I don't know much about some of the case studies she promotes in the book but I do know a fair bit about the Rwandan massacres, having done an assignment about them some years ago. It's not worth going into huge detail, but let's just say this – as far as I can see, she gets it wrong. And I'm afraid I'm not the only one who thinks so. If her research into the other case studies is as poor as this one – and I'll check her bibliography, I don't really feel much confidence in her conclusions.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-15301957998012612792022-08-04T19:38:55.883+12:002022-08-04T19:38:55.883+12:00Is this a joke?
A fantasy.Is this a joke?<br /><br />A fantasy.Alya Aetoshttps://www.instagram.com/alyaaetos/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89318728609283811992022-08-04T19:12:47.551+12:002022-08-04T19:12:47.551+12:00TO: Guerilla Surgeon & Andrew Nichols:
I wou...TO: Guerilla Surgeon & Andrew Nichols: <br /><br />I would like to thank you both for so amply confirming the thesis of my earlier post. This is how it began: <br /><br />"According to Barbara Walter, author of "How Civil Wars Start: And How To Stop Them", the most common reaction to the outbreak of serious civil strife is surprise.<br /> <br />"One minute the ordinary citizen is pausing amidst the familiar rush of daily chores to try and make sense of an alarming headline, and the next minute there’s the sound of machine-gun fire in the streets. Because most people simply cannot imagine the collapse of the political system they have believed and trusted in all their lives, they almost never see it coming, and are profoundly surprised when it arrives."<br /><br />You two, like so many others, will have no idea what has hit you. <br /><br />Here's the link: <br /><br />https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2022/07/rumours-of-civil-war.htmlChris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25644298401348580072022-08-04T16:53:02.055+12:002022-08-04T16:53:02.055+12:00That's a bleak picture you paint Chris, and wh...That's a bleak picture you paint Chris, and while anything is possible, not every scenario is probable. I rate the probability of civil war very low, not because we lack examples from history, but because there are likely much better options.<br /><br />I would place non-violent civil disobedience high on the list for those who have the most to lose from the abandonment of democracy in favour of some form of race based governance. It would begin slowly at first, but eventually non-compliance would weaken if not totally destroy the aspirations of the radical elites. <br /><br />Any and all departures from our democratic heritage would cause untold suffering for large numbers of New Zealanders. One can only hope that Labour dials back the expectations before serious damage is done to our social cohesion. Their blindness is truely mind numbing in its depth and potential for serious harm. Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-91893266611470507142022-08-04T15:43:28.301+12:002022-08-04T15:43:28.301+12:00I have seen ethnic conflict in Bosnia (in 1995 in ...I have seen ethnic conflict in Bosnia (in 1995 in Kiwi Company's Area of Operations) and its aftermath in Rwanda (in 1997 with UNHCR). While both countries had troubled histories going back many generations, the speed and ferocity with which conflict broke out was overwhelming. In each country conflict was provoked by the reckless, ethno-nationalist ambitions of politicians.<br /><br />It's interesting to reflect that many Australians served in the New Zealand Wars in the 19th century; they are commemorated in the Australian National War Memorial in Canberra. The time is fast approaching when New Zealand should take up the offer of statehood made to us under the Australian Constitution since we seem increasingly incapable of governing ourselves in a rational, truly democratic manner.Trev1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00271717267778957672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-51775982162988489682022-08-04T11:40:56.849+12:002022-08-04T11:40:56.849+12:00I've had an amazing idea. Everyone should be...I've had an amazing idea. Everyone should be able to prove that they know something about the politics and practices of whom and what they vote for! It<br />used to be that the vote went to people who owned property and just ordinary people got left out. That was changed but now the vote goes to anyone whether they have much knowledge or real interest in their area or country or not. <br /><br /> Reading some of the stuff written on TDB it seems to me that for many their apparent interest is more of a hobby, an enjoyment of contention, a habit, and they write to register their distaste for what they've got, like elegant aristos passing judgment on what's offering in the market. <br /><br />That isn't what democracy needs. There need to be workshops to give basic info and a certificate issued when passing that allows you to vote but also a scratchy to be done at the time with some basic questions like - what parties do you know about and what people standing and what are their beliefs in general - tick two of these boxes. <br /><br />Seems radical but the old saw about if you keep doing what you have always done then likely you'll get what you've always got. And what we have got in this civilised? year of 2022 is a mess and it's bloody well not good enough for an advanced country. Saw or sore what's it to be? <br /><br /><br />greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83401528011987444052022-08-04T09:32:58.552+12:002022-08-04T09:32:58.552+12:00To understand the mechanisms being used, we need t...To understand the mechanisms being used, we need to look back to 2019 when Jacinda Ardern boasted to the Bill Gates Foundation about how she was implementing the radical objectives of the United Nations:<br /><br />“My Government is doing something not many other countries have tried.<br /><br />“We have incorporated the principles of the 2030 Agenda into our domestic policy-making in a way that we hope will drive system-level actions… It is about fundamentally changing how we make decisions and allocate resources…” <br /><br />In another address that same year to the World Economic Forum, she explained her reforms were designed to lead to permanent change:<br /><br />“One of the biggest threats we have … are political cycles. This needs to be something that we embed in our national cycles, in our political cycles, and in our actions and it needs to endure beyond us as individuals.” <br /><br />Elizabeth Rata: “The question we must ask is this: How has a small group of individuals, both Māori and non-Māori, managed to install a racialised ideology into our democracy? The corporate tribes have already acquired considerable governance entitlements – the next and final step is tribal sovereignty. It’s a coup d’état in all but name, accomplished not by force but by ideology – enabled by a compliant media. <br /><br />Given the enormous success of retribalism is it too late to reclaim New Zealand from the relentless march to blood and soil ethno-nationalism?<br />That depends upon our willingness to understand, value, and restore democracy.”<br /><br />https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2022/08/03/democracy-the-treaty-and-the-coup-that-is-embedding-tribal-rule-into-our-regulatory-and-legislative-framework/David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-73397110087123240752022-08-04T08:38:11.161+12:002022-08-04T08:38:11.161+12:00The vast majority of Kiwis are pretty easy going, ...The vast majority of Kiwis are pretty easy going, trusting, naïve.<br /><br />"That Waititi, he's a bit of a poser, a hard case but he means well. Or Jackson, Davidson and Mahuta going on about those dreadful colonisers - glad there's none of them around anymore" <br /><br />When they finally wake up and realise that, no, they don't mean well (not as far as you and your descendants are concerned anyway) and that a coup has taken place I wouldn't be surprised if it generated a lot of anger. Some people will take their anger to the next level.<br /><br />Anyone (Andrew above?) that thinks some of the ethno nationalist types would react with equanimity if their separatist fantasies were destroyed is equally naïve. They seem relatively benign at present; Jacinda & Co are rubber stamping every outrageous demand they make. What happens when that changes - as Goldsmith promises:<br /><br />"I want it on the record that this bill was passed against the will of the Opposition—a change with widespread implications for democracy—that has been pushed through without any attempt whatsoever to bring widespread acceptance across the House. It has been done on crude majority numbers and, as such, it will be repealed if we get the opportunity at the next election. Thank you, Mr Speaker".<br /><br />Unsettling as it may be, a general referendum on the basis of our democracy is the only way forward. Sooner or later we have to come to terms with the obvious: the TOW is one of our foundations not a formula for the future.David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-45455345934246809822022-08-04T08:08:18.650+12:002022-08-04T08:08:18.650+12:00It seems increasingly obvious (to me anyway) that ...It seems increasingly obvious (to me anyway) that the only way to peacefully resolve the co-governance question is for it to be put to the people in the form of a referendum as ACT have proposed . Ardern & co don't even consider that an option so the coming election can't help but be seen as a proxy. It looks like National are coming round to that POV as well.<br /><br />Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Minister Willie Jackson said the nature of democracy has changed. And I suppose the question is: “To what?” And when did we decide, as a country, that the nature of our democracy has changed? I don’t recall going along to a constituent assembly where we all decided that the nature of our democracy had changed. I don’t recall a referendum where we decided, and I don’t recall the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, going to the people at the 2020 election saying, “By the way, I’m going to change the nature of our democracy.” What mandate have they got for it, and what does it mean?<br /><br />The suggestion is that the Treaty of Waitangi demands this. Well, it is our view, on this side of the House, that the Treaty of Waitangi does not trump democracy, and the country hasn’t decided that, and so, ultimately, what is being pushed here is, I think, a very divisive agenda which is pitting one group of New Zealanders against the others. "<br />https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20220803_051420000/goldsmith-paul<br /> David Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04883628159193125307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-82760354428514460152022-08-03T18:27:09.696+12:002022-08-03T18:27:09.696+12:00Grand Coalition?
It is now official, Kansas is no...Grand Coalition?<br /><br />It is now official, Kansas is now more socially liberal than Luxon. The Barronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-49324999399037477842022-08-03T15:48:04.415+12:002022-08-03T15:48:04.415+12:00The link doesn't work Chris – and the signs I ...The link doesn't work Chris – and the signs I might see in the US that she seems concerned with, have been there for some time – so if there is political violence in the US I certainly wouldn't be surprised by it. If there was more political violence in New Zealand, along the lines of the idiots who occupied Parliament grounds, I wouldn't be surprised either. But a full-blown civil war? At a stretch – maybe in the USA – but not in New Zealand. There simply aren't enough people willing to take up arms in this country – for whatever cause. If "Maori radicals" start some sort of guerrilla war, they might have some sympathy in the wider community but basically there will only be a few 100 or so if that.<br />I'm certainly not sleeping with a shotgun under my bed because you happen to be fear mongering. If it does happen there will be quite a long lead up time I suspect and it will be obvious.<br />The case studies she uses, particularly Yugoslavia are not a good fit for the USA, let alone NZ. It was held together by a dictator, and while it might not have been particularly obvious it was going to fall apart after he disappeared, it was certainly on the cards – you yourself have said there are some countries that can only be held together by a dictatorship.<br /><br />https://www.diplomaticourier.com/posts/how-civil-wars-start-and-how-they-dont<br />https://www.libraryjournal.com/review/how-civil-wars-start-and-how-to-stop-them-2129012<br /><br />Maybe you should have read a couple of reviews before after you read the book.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-61364516282021042112022-08-03T13:44:40.985+12:002022-08-03T13:44:40.985+12:00I am not certain whether the significant Maori pre...I am not certain whether the significant Maori presence at the protest outside parliament were actual Maori ethno-nationalists.<br /><br />More likely they were dim-witted, semi-literate high school dropouts with a penchant for waving tino rangatira and 1834 flags.<br /><br />I doubt they could spell "ethno-nationalism", let alone understand what it means.<br /><br />Domestic violence and Third World school attendance are New Zealand's real problems. And, sadly, Maori are leaders in both.Shane McDowallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354384369518580573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-6078707930630478312022-08-03T09:37:54.809+12:002022-08-03T09:37:54.809+12:00Talk about jeremiads! Has the socio-political sit...Talk about jeremiads! Has the socio-political situation in this country really come to this? I can understand that expectations rising faster than real improvements can lead to volatile outcomes - but ... civil war? Are people really so stupid? No one would win - except maybe the fat cattists at the top of the heap sitting safe in their gated communities, that is to say, the causes of it all.<br /><br />On the matter of possible interventions from Australia, the United States or China, the colonial records of all three are pretty damned piss haggard to say the least. There is no high ground there, moral or otherwise. The record of Maori colonisation is also nothing to skite about.<br /><br />Bloody hell -<br />Ion A. Dowman Archduke Piccolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533325665451889661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-8564359447626669712022-08-03T07:17:26.598+12:002022-08-03T07:17:26.598+12:00I wasn't going to comment, because this is non...I wasn't going to comment, because this is nonsense. But given that some commenters have taken it seriously, I'd just like to say – this is nonsense. Andrew Nichols has said everything else. :)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89108023356524502222022-08-02T18:10:22.108+12:002022-08-02T18:10:22.108+12:00Chris, I have an extremely wide circle of contacts...Chris, I have an extremely wide circle of contacts and consider that they encompass both extremes of the political spectrum.<br /><br />I can assure you and anyone else that the white supremacists in this country could be counted on the fingers and feet of an armless man.<br /><br />Kiwis don't resort to violence unless they're pissed so I can't see the fanciful situation posted by Chris ever coming to fruition.<br /><br />Nationalist maori are mainly the leite who are far too lazy to get grubby hands and their serfs beneath have way more nous to wage battle on their behalf, especially as "trickle down" has been restricted to crumbs from the table.<br /><br />We don't need a coalition because labour deserted their supporters long ago. ardern has merely confirmed that she has no regard for the workers of this country and would cheerfully sell us out for another bauble. She has learned at the feet of the master bauble getter ... and we all know who that was.<br /><br />PS: No relation!Gary Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03808045522267423028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-79010938213001110882022-08-02T17:39:14.661+12:002022-08-02T17:39:14.661+12:00Thanks for your analysis Chris Looking at the real...Thanks for your analysis Chris Looking at the real world rather than a world people want to believe exists Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795575742612940961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-55332912527195449192022-08-02T16:46:36.252+12:002022-08-02T16:46:36.252+12:00Dear oh dear. You really have gone over the edge w...Dear oh dear. You really have gone over the edge with your panic over the bogeyman "Maori Nationalism" Sounds like a 21st Century version of a Red scare with mokoed Tame Iti warriors brandishing aged shotguns storming state institutions instead of dancing cossacks. Do you realise how like Piggy Muldoon you are becoming?Andrew Nicholsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-79692140263950753232022-08-02T15:49:11.082+12:002022-08-02T15:49:11.082+12:00It would be a good idea to read John Wyndham's...It would be a good idea to read John Wyndham's The Day of the Triffids and see how it would work out for our lives. There is a strong totalitarian power that emerges at the end of his story. Good words from Don McLean -<br /><i>But strong men often fail<br />Where shrewd men can prevail...<br /><br />You know I'd like to put my finger on that trigger once again,<br />And point that gun at all the prideful men.<br />All the voyeurs and the lawyers who can pull a fountain pen,<br />And put you where they choose,<br />With the language that they use,<br />And enslave you till you work your youth away,<br />Oh god how I worked my youth away.<br />https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/donmclean/broncobillslament.html</i><br /><br />greywarblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-83413993168752264792022-08-02T15:38:37.290+12:002022-08-02T15:38:37.290+12:00There's lots of talk about the dangers of Whit...There's lots of talk about the dangers of White Supremist Groups inhabiting New Zealand these days. I'm not aware of any of any of any serious consequence. Some activists expend much energy keeping tabs on unapetising losers like the National Front while the likes of New Zealand First and Labour do the real anti immigrant and militaristic business. Don Frankshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17801999410940938418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-41869683606520428792022-08-02T15:07:34.504+12:002022-08-02T15:07:34.504+12:00A worst case scenario Chris, but not impossible co...A worst case scenario Chris, but not impossible considering the rhetoric of The Maori Party. My concern now is that we will not have a fair and free election next year. Actual White Supremacists are still a small group in NZ. Those who want to preserve democracy are however the majority. Any Grand Coalition would rest on Labour ditching its separatist policiesboudiccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305676662683376805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-56867551595367995312022-08-02T14:16:46.211+12:002022-08-02T14:16:46.211+12:00It would never get to that point as the forces of ...It would never get to that point as the forces of order would include Australian 'boots on the ground' long before the violence started, and it would also include Australia and other Commonwealth countries such as the UK taking a public, and behind the scenes stance. The public would expect such action from the outset. Kiwis are civil. <br /><br />'Overtearoa' is the result you get when you don't consult with the entire civilian population; the polity 'stomping about' due to parliamentary supremacy, and ignorance. The polity is uncivil. <br /><br />A Senate would have had NZ in a far better position for all Kiwis than what the NZ unicameral chamber has constantly achieved in the last 3 decades; endless and pointless division. Editors are uncivil.<br /><br />I left NZ long ago for Australia, and are all the healthier for it, others are now questioning their health. <br /><br /> <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-81269158283643278362022-08-02T14:13:02.370+12:002022-08-02T14:13:02.370+12:00More strong. direct common sense analysis. Thanks ...More strong. direct common sense analysis. Thanks Chris -. For looking at the true issues we are facing Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795575742612940961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-88239689438362214672022-08-02T13:01:18.396+12:002022-08-02T13:01:18.396+12:00Very funny Chris. This is an excellent spoof of th...Very funny Chris. This is an excellent spoof of the sort of post-Covid hyperbolic silliness that is all around us. And as you know, we already have a grand coalition of fairly neoliberal Labour and very neoliberal National. They peacefully hand power back and forth between each other every 6-9 years (on average) - which explains our slow but inevitable decline over 50 years. As you explained quite nicely in a previous post.ABnoreply@blogger.com