tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post8876853286715590073..comments2024-03-29T00:44:42.046+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Call The Vet! Protecting The State From The Virus Of Dissent.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-71500254900859826202016-04-25T11:05:05.082+12:002016-04-25T11:05:05.082+12:00If you’re one of those who find it difficult to ac...<br />If you’re one of those who find it difficult to accept that our civil service is dedicated to the preservation of the capitalist status quo, then try this thought experiment.<br />......<br />So what about political correctness (or) "institutionalisation of public discourse? That is a left-wing right-wing coalition deal where the enemy are nationalists (in so far as it relates to multiculturalism)?jhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-4950258667091713512016-04-19T15:27:58.754+12:002016-04-19T15:27:58.754+12:00What's a "Radical Agenda", presumabl...What's a "Radical Agenda", presumably anything that you disagree with Wayne?<br />Proving the point of Chris' article completely.<br />In the greek case selling off public assets to pay off bankers who fraudulently collapsed (for immense personal gain) the global economy then held the whole world to ransom - that's not "radical"?<br />The fact that most people are completely disenfrachised with our political establishment should tell you that the "extremists" are actually proponents of the status quo like yourself.Sam Vnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16743117322869231132016-04-13T23:09:58.198+12:002016-04-13T23:09:58.198+12:00Anonymous at 9 April 14:30:
"How would you li...Anonymous at 9 April 14:30:<br />"How would you liked to governed by a coalition of political leaders such as Andrew Little, Metiria Turei, James Shaw and Winston Peters?. Personally I would rather slit my throat"<br /><br />Works for me - is it completely necessary for you to wait for them to be elected? ABnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-8557273125781631132016-04-12T19:46:01.674+12:002016-04-12T19:46:01.674+12:00By about 1979/80 the criterion for even junior pos...By about 1979/80 the criterion for even junior positions in serious departments, eg mfat, treasury, transport was at least some real economics as well as a good degree. And oddities, fanatics and fatties were not wanted in those unusual days. Roger Bartley the ex shell executive who was the Vic careers adviser said Economics 2 was the min eeq in 78.That was a slight exaggeration but not a couple of years later.But of course how did Tim Grosser slip into MTI a few years earlier and transfer to MFAT in the 86 merger.French fluency often overode every obvious failing with many key NZ Government departments and many key positions were still not vetted in the mid late 1980s for example the shipping section of MOT not even such critical positions as shipping controllers.Anti nuclear power activists ( how I was percieved) were rejected because really, MOT sections did not want the SIS in the department. <br />In many ways the situation in Government today is probably the opposite of what you suggest. I assume the JohnAllen/Grosser list of those to sack in MFAT included every real believer in ANZUS or the US relations.<br />Most significant espionage seems to have been due to technicians taste for hot teenagers.<br />The damage done by Phillby MacLean and Burgess is debatable.Burgess was clearly one of greatest British/USSR double agents doing invaluable service for both in the eyes of Eden Battle and Churchill in monitoring the frightening militarism if MacArthur Curtis LeMay and the haberdasher Truman.Macarthurs intention for tactical warfare with small nukes would have been communicated very quickly for an alcoholic deviant to London and Moscow.Philiby and MacLean admitted to some residual belief in red socialism at their interviews. Philby was obviously such a charming gentleman, public school Cambridge man that neither Moscow or London believed for a minute that Kim was anything but that he was the Queens loyal man.Philby's first report to the KGB that the British didn't have any agents in the USSR guaranteed he was never believed in Russia and anybody he sent across the iron curtain would have been disposed off automatically by the Russians as a double agent.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12440177797614373201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-48155981671257756532016-04-12T00:17:10.286+12:002016-04-12T00:17:10.286+12:00Hi Chris,
Thanks for the post.
Further to the re...Hi Chris,<br /><br />Thanks for the post.<br /><br />Further to the recent interim report from the Inspectorate, have you heard something anecdotal recently?<br /><br />Mr. Mapp's response to your post, and essentially the allegations about the (mis)use of vetting was quite telling. There certainly wasn't much in the way of denial.pigmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16373560358977537670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-86268367675789336822016-04-11T17:07:42.608+12:002016-04-11T17:07:42.608+12:00I was going to refer to Syriza, but they have been...I was going to refer to Syriza, but they have been in a difficult spot which makes them a somewhat special case. They wanted to stay in the Euro but also get bailout money. In that case the lenders had leverage. Of course they could have exited the Euro and taken their chances. Actually that would be a much less dramatic event than if the UK exits the EU.<br /><br />So if a government wants to implement a radical agenda, they can. But they won't be able to dictate the terms of any borrowing, particularly of an emergency last resort kind as was the case with Greece, to their lenders. But isn't it ever thus? <br /><br />So for instance if the NZ public wants a radical agenda, a much more radical agenda than would be the case under a Corbyn style govt, they will be able to get it. But also remember the opponents of the govt will seek to have them voted out of office just three years later.<br /><br />And isn't that the strength of our system. If the public wants change they will get it, but the public also gets to change its mind in just there years if they don't like the result. Which tends to act as a brake on most governments. Wayne Mapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906396523791648270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-2451730750499394442016-04-11T15:56:12.282+12:002016-04-11T15:56:12.282+12:00Wayne – was there not a purge of people at the top...Wayne – was there not a purge of people at the top of the bureaucracy after Douglas came to power, continued by Jim Bolger? Not necessarily formal, but that's not the way that these things tend to work in New Zealand is it? Just curious.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-57856928216663953722016-04-11T14:13:19.181+12:002016-04-11T14:13:19.181+12:00Still wearing those blue-tinted spectacles, Wayne....Still wearing those blue-tinted spectacles, Wayne.<br /><br />The last attempted coup in South America wasn't in 1973, it was in 2002 - against Hugo Chavez. We may also be witnessing a slow-motion coup right now, in Brazil.<br /><br />That the number of these interventions has tailed off since the 1970s is entirely due to the success of the Neoliberal counter-attack of the 1980s and 90s. The number of countries which have attempted to step outside the Neoliberal Paradigm may be counted on the fingers of one hand (not including North Korea or Cuba, which are essentially Cold War relics).<br /><br />If you want to see what happens to a political party that dares to posit a new and more rational way of doing business, I suggest you get in touch with Alexis Tsipras of Syriza.<br /><br />And don't try to tell me that Syriza was the irrational party at the Greek Debt Restructuring Talks, because even the IMF now admits that Yanis Varoufakis and his team were always talking much more sense than the representatives of the ECB and the EU Commission.Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-50606435456192511832016-04-11T11:05:44.684+12:002016-04-11T11:05:44.684+12:00In effect Chris what you are saying is that there ...In effect Chris what you are saying is that there is no hope of a future government with a different ideological perspective changing the way things are run by their departments and ministries. This is a sad prognosis because it indicates that whoever is in power, Left or Right is going to nobble any chance of change.<br /><br />Of course things do change, what each of the Labour governments of 1935 and 1984 did was to push through revolutions that took hold at all levels. I always felt that observing the Douglas cabal was like watching neo Leninists, change was pushed through so fast and in such contempt of any damage caused. The people who run the "deep state" as I have heard you describe it in my experience (I do and have known a few) are not ideologically pure. In fact if they have one commonality it is that they are "Corporate Jesuits" who understand how to wield power, which levers to pull. Like the Soviets apparatchiks they are the people who prosper in those roles regardless of the system. <br /><br />Change will come, the stasis will fail when the preconditions that underlay the success of the current system fail. Events like the Panama papers are akin to the Affair of the Necklace that proceeded the fall of the Ancien Regime, they merely chip away at the legitimacy. Today anybody with half an eye open will be aware that there are storm clouds around finance, trade, environment, war, terror, population and resources. The papers and the politicians wont tell you that the dots can be joined. So the "crisis" appears in open view but unheralded, discounted by the beneficiaries of the status quo. A rapid change in bread prices and availability were the trigger for the French Revolution and probably for the Arab Spring. The one characteristic of both these events was that the regime and its apparatchiks failed to see it coming, they were so preoccupied with their own worth and rituals. As you say, defeating Key and replacing him with a Left parliament wont make an iota of difference, real change will be effected by circumstances.<br /><br />Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-72732414247913549282016-04-11T09:22:31.205+12:002016-04-11T09:22:31.205+12:00Do you really think a left wing govt, say as radic...Do you really think a left wing govt, say as radical as a Jermey Corbyn govt, would do a formal purging of the civil service, and more importantly why would it be necessary for them to implement their policy. Lets say 60% top tax rate, withdrawal from 5 Eyes, repurchase of electricity companies, compulsory unionism, etc. Surely such a Corbyn style govts polices would just be be implemented by the civil service as it is currently set up. That is what every civil servant understands to be what they must do.<br /><br />Now I appreciate you were just using that example as a point of illustration about the current vetting and why it is not necessary. <br /><br />But you keep suggesting that a true left wing govt would somehow be overthrown by either local "dark forces" or international "dark forces." I guess in your view such a govt would be a lot more radical than a Jeremy Corbyn style govt, or else it would hardly deserve the title of left wing. Thus it would inevitably be thwarted by these "dark forces" But would it? <br /><br />All manner of countries have elected radical govts, especially in South Amercia, and nothing much seems to happen other than their economy imploding, but that is usually a direct consequence of their own policies. Pinochet style coups seem to be a thing of the past, South America now basically acts democratically.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Wayne Mapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12906396523791648270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-16471457848846223032016-04-10T18:59:38.864+12:002016-04-10T18:59:38.864+12:00All this means that when they are removed, it will...All this means that when they are removed, it will be by force. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-3524582392394345512016-04-10T14:11:28.482+12:002016-04-10T14:11:28.482+12:00Well Anonymous, slitting your throat doesn't s...Well Anonymous, slitting your throat doesn't seem very pragmatic and the mention of politicians off-topic.<br />You can either tolerate different views or not, free speech/thought is for those we disagree with or not at all. You are either with the soviet comissar or against.<br />I put myself with Chris on the correct side of morality regardless of his political views.Sam Vnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25142480632975038822016-04-10T12:33:45.673+12:002016-04-10T12:33:45.673+12:00Yes anonymous, the state sector unions have been g...Yes anonymous, the state sector unions have been gutted – apart from the teachers and the police. It's interesting how the government dislikes unions, yet constantly kisses the police unions arse. There's a thesis in here somewhere. :) What gets me about these managers, and of course people like Charles and jigsaw, is that the 1% don't really consider them as "one of them". They're just peasants like the rest of us – 'useful idiots'. I find this hilarious. And of course a little sad.:)Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17060124782017680972016-04-10T11:09:53.246+12:002016-04-10T11:09:53.246+12:00About a decade ago, a colleague & I attempted ...About a decade ago, a colleague & I attempted to get organised and unionise a Crown Entity.<br /><br />These actions were met with an aggressive response from senior managers in Wellington and what followed was a hounding campaign against me & my colleague with subtle digs regarding our competence.<br /><br />In the end I left, so a victory for them I suppose.<br /><br />Misinformation was spread to potential union members like 'your salary could decrease', 'you won't be able to progress to management', 'union membership is a career-killer' etc<br /><br />Good people bought the fear-mongering campaign; as a result despite our best efforts we couldn't gain a majority of union members in the organisation.<br /><br />The striking aspect for me was the power-crazed mentality of Neo-Liberal senior managers in Wellington.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-74634368087407265062016-04-10T07:33:26.292+12:002016-04-10T07:33:26.292+12:00"How would you liked to governed by a coaliti..."How would you liked to governed by a coalition of political leaders such as Andrew Little, Metiria Turei, James Shaw and Winston Peters?."<br /><br />As opposed to John Key, Jerry (rebuild) Brownlee, Judith Collins and Maggie Barry? Yeah right.<br /><br />"Personally I would rather slit my throat."<br /><br />Well – sounds a bit harsh maybe but works for me. But seriously –Yeah right. Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-92050407313406204572016-04-09T14:30:19.955+12:002016-04-09T14:30:19.955+12:00Chris , after reading your article several times a...Chris , after reading your article several times all I can say is well done to Rebecca Kitteridge so far and good luck to Rebecca Kitteridge in the future.<br /><br />I wish she had the ability to weed out some of the candidates for political office in this country.<br /><br />How would you liked to governed by a coalition of political leaders such as Andrew Little, Metiria Turei, James Shaw and Winston Peters?.<br /><br />Personally I would rather slit my throat.<br /><br />A very good piece of writing, I obviously do not share your concerns. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-25623716081763313732016-04-09T12:39:23.540+12:002016-04-09T12:39:23.540+12:00I remember Brian Easton once saying in a column, t...I remember Brian Easton once saying in a column, that once Roger Douglas came in you couldn't get a job in treasury unless you were extremely "dry" economically/ideologically.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.com