tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post9060866036915974274..comments2024-03-29T03:41:12.499+13:00Comments on Bowalley Road: Taking Control Of The Nation's Story.Chris Trotterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-71139497268052834532019-10-17T12:01:43.712+13:002019-10-17T12:01:43.712+13:00So the fact that conservatives send their kids to ...So the fact that conservatives send their kids to private schools, and in the US where I presume Jonathan Haidt comes from to private and often religious universities means that their minds aren't being mollycoddled? New Zealand conservatives usually make sure that their kids aren't exposed to alternative views, partly by making sure they are safely enrolled in business/economics/law at universities. Ah...the snowflakes and their safe spaces eh?Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-30508423623306343102019-10-17T10:21:42.601+13:002019-10-17T10:21:42.601+13:00GS
I have been reading Papers Past for evidence of...GS<br />I have been reading Papers Past for evidence of Tautahi Pa (on which Christchurch gets a rebrand). If it existed it was "centuries ago". <br />You do get a sense of genuine grievance as Maori who were once Kings of the Castle are left behind and are "landless Mcgregor's". There is a letter from A Maori [unless it is just his non de plume] who sticks up for Chinese saying we must be more brotherly [GREYMOUTH EVENING STAR, 18 NOVEMBER 1905]. Which made me think he has seen the other side of the story. <br />I also found an account of a Maori Woman whose mother and father were both mixed race who became an advocate for retaining Maori knowledge and she appears to be one of the sources for W A Taylor who wrote a history of the south Island Maori in 1850. She was a pre 1970's radical (you might say).<br />Having said that though these things have a use by date. Do gooders like Jim Bolger think expressions of virtue and recognitions of past wrongs will have a good result. The opposite is true. They are like the old time psychologists who said "yes, yes, poor you!". That is what Jon Haidt and others talk about when they relate the mollycoddling of America's young minds as being the antithesis of best practise in psychology (cognitive behavioural therapy). Today we have wealthy Ngai tahu convinced they were ripped off as owners of the South Island at 1d/acre.... because do-gooders encourage them. If no academics argue against that line it is assumed there is no other argument.<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJwRVOKm8gA&t=1sJohn Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-88519131416845169572019-10-14T08:56:09.934+13:002019-10-14T08:56:09.934+13:00The Christchurch Press looses 20,000 subscribers p...The Christchurch Press looses 20,000 subscribers per year and yet still pours out "Death Ship" articles by Phillip Mathews. Phillip Mathews scoffed at people aghast at Katie Pickles suggestion that we shouldn't restore statues. She writes:<br /><br /><i>Would the student army put their lives on the line to fight for Britain? Probably not. The patriotism is gone, but the celebrity remains.</i><br />http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/4863323/A-natural-break-from-our-colonial-past<br /><br />So what fills the void? John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-58400039244513265332019-10-13T00:53:02.721+13:002019-10-13T00:53:02.721+13:00After Meng Foon's vera canny Maori-infused end...After Meng Foon's vera canny Maori-infused endless mayorality here in Gisborne we've just got a South African who hasn't deigned to address the least. Roofs over their heads she avoided, it's so desperate here for the 'least' housing-wise. Yertle has an outsize voice in Gisborne, hence the endless police cars. A victory for the powerful, she'll have to bring off the dream of a strong economy. A right-wing South African in Gisborne (50 % Maori). Not right.<br /><br />Just a fair picture of NZ history is good enough. Media is just what's first up, and that implies power of some sort.sumsuchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133092096534660472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-89966226214989772562019-10-11T17:17:58.276+13:002019-10-11T17:17:58.276+13:00Show me the genetic line that has no traces of bei...Show me the genetic line that has no traces of being over run by colonisation. It's the empirical history of humanity, nobody is exempt. It is the human condition.<br /><br />We in NZ are just the latest version. What we are however trying to do is redress the "wrongs" of the colonisation. That's a plus compared to the usual model. If I hold with any protest it is because the speed of redress is so slow.<br /><br />On the plus side as the late great Ranginui Walker said the wrongs are being cured between the bedsheets. We will be one people (until the next colonisation).<br />Nick Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-85768823564850878492019-10-11T12:47:23.317+13:002019-10-11T12:47:23.317+13:00@ Barry. Cook didn't flog those involved in t...@ Barry. Cook didn't flog those involved in the shooting which was done in self defence and about which he and Banks both recorded their strongest regret. He did however have men flogged who stole vegetables and small items from Maori in the Bay of Islands.<br />Odysseushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04745489060434244478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-47650591514305629702019-10-11T09:14:44.548+13:002019-10-11T09:14:44.548+13:00I recently spent some time in Ireland, Wales and B...I recently spent some time in Ireland, Wales and Belgium. Parts of Belgium have changed hands over 40 times in the last couple of thousand years. They dont even comment on it. In Ireland they dislike the British with passion - but they also say that they are lucky as when the British invaded in about 1650 they brought the best education system in the world with them and the Irish have adopted it. The Welsh have a lot to thank the Hugonaughts (sp?)for when they invaded and introduced a building style that resulted in permanent houses - which the welsh lacked.<br /><br />In the much vaunted Tuia 250 all we have heard is what a terribly guy Cook was and that he was a murderer. There has been no mention of the fact that Cook had the perpetrators of the shooting of Maori flogged - Cook thought it was exactly the wrong thin to have done. Cook was no murderer and in fact is recorded as being one of the few captains who cared about his crew at a time in history when that sort of leadership was uncommon.<br /><br />Of course teaching the countries history is a good thing. I was amazed yesterday the hear a regular commentator say that she never knew anything about Russell being capital of early New Zealand - amazing.<br />As long as the history that is taught is true - then no problem. Both the Colonials and Maori have good stories and bad stories to be told. For example the truth behind the so called Banning of Te Reo needs to be told - the Maori leaders at the time wanted their children to learn english because without it they would suffer. Their desire may have been implemented a bit harshly - but they were the tools used at that time.Barrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-67022595743079182252019-10-10T18:47:47.149+13:002019-10-10T18:47:47.149+13:00When Yassmin Abdel-Magied made an ill-advised twee...When Yassmin Abdel-Magied made an ill-advised tweet on ANZAC day she found out she wasn't an Australian. Societies unite around sacred symbols. Anzac is sacred to Australians and us but so is Cook. Maori were lucky they weren't colonised by Maori. Imagine if the Church of England settlers had arrived at Lyttelton, said prayers and then rounded up and ritually slaughtered local Maori roasting them on a spit (as happened to the Moriori)?John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-14830110889989336152019-10-10T14:16:01.215+13:002019-10-10T14:16:01.215+13:00Kia ora Mark
"We have now lurched to the opp...Kia ora Mark<br /><br />"We have now lurched to the opposite pole where 'white bad/brown good' is all pervasive."<br />It is out there. But not "all pervasive".<br /><br />"No cognisance can be made to any positive outcomes of colonial contributions such as technology" <br />That confounds technology with colonialism. In fact many of us respect aspects of European culture, including agricultural systems, technology, Christianity and rule of law. But we could have had all these things without colonisation.<br /><br />" nor to the recognition that our country has valiantly and economically worked hard to address past wrongs."<br />I'm sorry, while I accept that ordinary folk have good will and good intentions, I don't believe that of the New Zealand state. The "Treaty settlement" regime was part and parcel of Rogernomics, a disingenuous attempt to distract Maori, who were among the principal victims of the state's "reforms", from mounting a political response. The best that one can say of the New Zealand state is that it knows when to be pragmatic.<br /><br />"In 1975, as a student idealist I sought to support Whina Cooper's land march but was told to, "F### off pakeha."<br />I presume you did as you were told. That would be understandable, but the correct response would have been to say "I am here to fight for justice in the motu and who are you to tell me not to?". One doesn't have to get angry, and one doesn't have to be offended, but one should not fold in the face of such a challenge.<br />Many Pakeha participated in and supported the land march. Your unfortunate experience would not have been typical. <br />Geoff Fischerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509885628971898371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-43227549415871913722019-10-09T22:18:56.247+13:002019-10-09T22:18:56.247+13:00As the first commenter said, if it hadn't been...As the first commenter said, if it hadn't been Cook, it would have most likely been the French or the Dutch.<br /><br />Name one former colony of the French or the Dutch that has fared better than the Maori of New Zealand. I dare anyone to say they'd rather be a native of Algeria, or Indonesia, or many other former colonies. rouppehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07446734587426078093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-31771560081331991922019-10-09T19:43:17.850+13:002019-10-09T19:43:17.850+13:00Well done Chris broaching this topic that nearly a...Well done Chris broaching this topic that nearly all pakeha fear to tread for the obvious reason of being, and dismissed as, a racist. Unfortunately, those that do speak up are typically anonymous keyboard warriors and/or hard right imbeciles unable to articulate anything beyond chip on the shoulder vitriol whereby perspicacious commentators like yourself are contemptuously lumped in with them.<br /><br />As a fifteen year old I witnessed the bi-centenary celebration and parade in Gisborne's main street of Cook's landing. It seems the whole town turned out and scant recognition was made of Maori existence let alone involvement. Indeed, our country was Euro-centric.<br /><br />We have now lurched to the opposite pole where 'white bad/brown good' is all pervasive. No cognisance can be made to any positive outcomes of colonial contributions such as technology nor to the recognition that our country has valiantly and economically worked hard to address past wrongs. "Colonisation" is constantly used as a pejorative without anyone considering that it came with benefits as well.<br /><br />In 1975, as a student idealist I sought to support Whina Cooper's land march but was told to, "F### off pakeha." This era is lauded as the beginning of the Maori Renaissance and indeed it jolted the country out of its narrow "We are one people" torpor. But forty five years hence, there seems to be a growing willful alienation by perpetually angry and irreconcilable Maori nationalists that does not furnish, for me at least, any positivity for the future.Mark Simpsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-23151999998434781692019-10-09T10:15:46.906+13:002019-10-09T10:15:46.906+13:00Kia ora Chris
The Key government's decision to...Kia ora Chris<br />The Key government's decision to stage national celebrations for the 250th anniversary of Cook's arrival on our shores was decidedly odd and it was strange that the following government of Jacinda Ardern failed to see the entirely predictable divisions that it would provoke in New Zealand society - the exact opposite of what "Te Tuia" evidently intended.<br />The colonial political establishment sincerely believed that the person of Dame Jenny Shipley invoking the name of Captain James Cook RN would be enough to bring all New Zealanders together in a moment of national unity - "Te Tuia".<br />How could they have got it so wrong? That is the question you should be asking. And after that you should ask whether there is a future for a regime which is can be so out of touch with the mood of the people and so convinced that we can be intoxicated by a cocktail of colonial history stirred by one who personifies economic savagery, corporate fraud and economic treason. <br />Instead, you launch into a critique of what you choose to call "Maori nationalism". You find within the academic establishment an individual who perceives (or at least portrays) the challenges facing us in racial rather than political terms. No surprises there. The colonial regime, particularly in its current multicultural phase, holds strictly to the dogma that social and political conflict in New Zealand is all about race and nothing but race. Dr Rata has assimilated that dogma well and voices it strongly, but her audience is largely restricted to the colonial academic establishment and the regime which funds her work.<br />You write that "The world of the Maori was doomed" by the arrival of European explorers. <br />That is wrong. Te ao Maori is alive and thriving. Maori have suffered defeats and won victories but there has been no historical inevitability attached to either victory or defeat. Outcomes have depended on the strategy and tactics adopted given a particular balance of forces and social conditions, and those social conditions and the balance of forces are currently moving in our favour, despite what you and most political pundits might suggest.<br />You say that "If Maori nationalist historians can seize control of the new, soon-to-be-compulsory, history curriculum, then the necessary ideological preparations can be made for a radical constitutional transformation." <br />Wrong again. One can seize control of a propaganda machine, but no one can "seize control" of the truth, and in any case constitutional change does not depend on what takes place in the schools or universities of the colonial regime. It will come through the will of the people, Maori and Pakeha, who have had enough of everything that Dame Jenny Shipley and the colonial regime represent.<br />By turning the spotlight on to so-called "Maori nationalists" who are but the shadow side of British colonialism you just muddy the waters of the debate. <br />The fact is that "Te Tuia" was a huge political mistake, which points to the impending doom of colonialism - not of Maori. <br />Geoff Fischerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509885628971898371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-64355435734389091212019-10-08T20:57:09.235+13:002019-10-08T20:57:09.235+13:00There's a coop underway by foreign-backed sepa...There's a coop underway by foreign-backed separatists. This stuff will look quaint, sweet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-1693394092575106052019-10-08T20:45:01.484+13:002019-10-08T20:45:01.484+13:00Anonymous @ 11.17
Look up "the Tamil Pot...Anonymous @ 11.17<br /> Look up "the Tamil Pot.(bell) <br />D J SDavid Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-24424539160406040082019-10-08T18:41:02.700+13:002019-10-08T18:41:02.700+13:00NZ On Air was fanatically supportive of the NZ War...NZ On Air was <i>fanatically supportive</i> of the NZ Wars documentary series. It was filmed Hollywood style based on <i>Thin Red line</i>. Bellich regretted he couldn't put some balance in favour of Pakeha. It is in every secondary school. It hasn't done the trick. They will have a fight of their hands because "we don't know our history" and "we have to own our own history" and having a "conversation" has different connotations to different people. How far do the bureaucrats think they can go? Already the media and politicians are not trusted - that cannot be a good sign? One observation I would make is a. they don't understand human nature (blank slate ideology) and b. they overestimate their ability to influence opinion?<br /><br />Maori nationalism is partly a result of funding Maori studies which would have the same effect if any radical position is state funded.John Hurleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-17195797868082908052019-10-08T18:10:59.824+13:002019-10-08T18:10:59.824+13:00"Forty years of failure to present a coherent..."Forty years of failure to present a coherent historical narrative to successive generations of students has left young New Zealanders prey to the anachronistic blame-gaming of Maori nationalists."<br />On the contrary, the failure to study New Zealand history New Zealand schools has resulted in the anachronistic idea that Maori – get free stuff, are privileged, are unworthy recipients of Pakeha largess, which they all piss up against the wall.<br />The ones that have studied New Zealand history, and they are relatively few, will have learned about the injustices legally foisted on Maori and those that were the result of Pakeha breaking their own damned laws. They are who will have sympathy with what you call the anachronistic blame gaming of Maori nationalists. If there had been no injustices, they wouldn't have any traction. So this is beyond wrong.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-53652542926286548422019-10-08T14:43:11.404+13:002019-10-08T14:43:11.404+13:00We live in a time when public discourse is charact...We live in a time when public discourse is characterized by mindless outrage and hysteria. Captain Cook - humane leader, unparalleled navigator and explorer, dedicated servant of science - was the real "progressive".<br /><br />Odysseushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04745489060434244478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-47658859823493665782019-10-08T14:18:13.094+13:002019-10-08T14:18:13.094+13:00@ Guerilla Surgeon
I was on an All Blacks support...@ Guerilla Surgeon<br /><br />I was on an All Blacks supporters tour to Argentina in 2006. At a social function out Argentinian guide prompted some general historical chit-chat re our respective countries. <br /><br />The wife of our tour leader (a prominant All Black of the 1980's) appeared stumped as to what to say.<br /><br />Then she shrieked: 'Maoris have more rights than us!'<br /><br />This, GS, perhaps supplies a striking eg & result of the lack of study of NZ History in schools and other places.<br /><br />It was a cringe-worthy moment in extremis. BlisteringAttacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-39146044608839499102019-10-08T13:13:17.002+13:002019-10-08T13:13:17.002+13:00This comment has been removed by the author.Guerilla Surgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03427876447124021423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-84530289636469083732019-10-08T11:46:38.210+13:002019-10-08T11:46:38.210+13:00Tuia250 is state sponsored nonsense.
Replicas, dr...Tuia250 is state sponsored nonsense.<br /><br />Replicas, dress ups, & superficial talk & narratives about 'encounter' is just plain junk.<br /><br />Still, it probably employed several dozen pakeha bureaucrats on 6 figure salaries who thought long and hard about the 'themes' for this so-called historic milestone. <br /><br />Tuai250 is cringe-worthy worthless mindless junk.Pluggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-76947076024566570072019-10-08T11:30:13.328+13:002019-10-08T11:30:13.328+13:00Just a few points. How can mixed race Maori get ri...Just a few points. How can mixed race Maori get rid of Pakeha society when they are part of it by descent. There was never a self-governing polynesian society here before the British arrived - it was an iwi society dominated by a chiefly elite. Modern Maori have a damn sight more than they had before. Sure its dominated by the rich and powerful; non-Maori New Zealanders have to put up with that bullshit as well.They are just dreamers anyway.NZ will eventually be dominated and outnumbered by Chinese and Indians. Who will Maori run to then?peteswriteplacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474922953916383101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3753486518085091399.post-2956478935383551142019-10-08T11:17:40.169+13:002019-10-08T11:17:40.169+13:00If it wasn't Cook, it would be some other disc...If it wasn't Cook, it would be some other discoverer from some other foriegn power that landed. It is a wonder that no other European voyager followed along shortly after Tasman. Maori isolationism was doomed from afar with technoligal advances of the time. Even the Chinese had vessels with the capability of reaching here. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com