Friday 20 July 2018

Zionist-Inspired Definition Of Antisemitism Deployed Against Jeremy Corbyn.

Targeted: For more than a year now, charges that Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic have been driving a debilitating wedge into the British Labour Party. Why are these accusations being made and, more importantly, why are they being taken seriously? The answer is to be found in the efforts of Zionists (an ideology to be carefully differentiated from the beliefs of Jewish people in general) to expand the definition of antisemitism to include any negative references to the origins, policies and actions of the Israeli state.

THE NEW ZEALAND LEFT is not alone in being torn apart by what should and should not be tolerated. Only yesterday (17/7/18) the British Labour Leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was publicly upbraided for being “an antisemitic racist” by Margaret Hodge, a senior British Labour MP. Hodge was furious that Labour’s National Executive Committee (NEC) has refused to accept, in full, the definition of antisemitism issued by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA).

For more than a year now, charges of antisemitism have been driving a debilitating wedge into the British Labour Party. Not that very many people around the world find these charges even remotely credible. The British Labour Party has a long and proud history of standing up for the rights of all Jewish people suffering persecution on account of their religious beliefs and/or supposed “racial” identity. Why, then, are these accusations being made and, more importantly, why are they being taken seriously?

The answer is to be found in the efforts of Zionists (an ideology to be carefully differentiated from the beliefs of Jewish people in general) to expand the definition of antisemitism to include any negative references to the origins, policies and actions of the Israeli state.

On these matters, the British Labour Party can speak with some authority. It was, after all, the 1945-1951 Labour Government, led by Clement Attlee, which withdrew the last remaining British troops from Palestine on 14 May 1948 – clearing the way for the creation of the State of Israel on 15 May 1948.

British military forces, who were responsible for enforcing what was known as Great Britain’s “mandatory power” in Palestine, had come under increasingly violent attack from Zionist terror groups, such as Irgun and the notorious Stern Gang, since the end of the Second World War in 1945. In September 1947, war weary and close to insolvency, the British state announced to the world that it was no longer willing or able to carry out its duties to the Arab and Jewish populations of Palestine.

This did not, however, mean that they were blind to the strategies and tactics of their Zionist antagonists. As the party in power at the time, Labour has always known a great deal more about the nature and birth of the State of Israel than its Zionist defenders would like.

Hence the co-ordinated attack upon the Jeremy Corban-led Labour Party. As a principled leftist, Corbyn has always refused to buy into the Zionist characterisation of Israel as a state more sinned against that sinning. He has never stopped caring about the Palestinians who, for a variety of reasons (some good, some bad) were made homeless by the circumstances of Israel’s bloody birth. Corbyn’s empathy for the people whose survival has, for the past 70 years, depended upon the support and concern of the international community has been unwavering.

The prospect of such a man becoming Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is not something the Israeli Government and its supporters are ready to accept without a fight. Corbyn’s contacts with Palestinian leaders have been challenged.

Does he subscribe to their desire to wipe Israel off the map? Is that why he refuses to declare his unequivocal support for the Jewish homeland. Is he providing aid and comfort to his antisemitic supporters among the Labour Party rank-and-file? And, if he is, doesn’t that prove that he is, indeed, “an antisemitic racist”?

Crucial to the success of this campaign has been the refusal of its promoters to draw that all-important distinction between anti-Zionism and antisemitism. They allow their target audience to assume that their charges relate to behaviour conforming to the traditional definition of antisemitism: hostility to or prejudice against Jews; when what they are really talking about is the IHRA definition of antisemitism – which includes inter alia:

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour.

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Small wonder that the NEC balked at accepting such a tendentious definition “in full”. To do so would render criticism of Israeli policy and Zionist ideology virtually impossible.

Confirmation that proscribing criticism is, indeed, the goal of the campaign against Corbyn and his supporters in the Labour Party has been provided by what the Guardian describes as “a coalition of 36 international Jewish anti-Zionist groups”. The latter have released an open letter in which the definition of antisemitism supplied by the IHRA (an organisation which began as a genuine Pan-European effort to ensure that the lessons of the Holocaust are never forgotten but which has subsequently been hijacked by Zionists and turned towards the protection of Israel) is condemned as a “distorted definition of antisemitism to stifle criticism of Israel”.

Margaret Hodge owes Jeremy Corbyn an apology.

This essay was originally posted on The Daily Blog of Thursday, 19 July 2018.


Jim Rose said...

The definition you cite does go over the top in parts. There is a difference between the degree of double standards and inattention in your comments when holding one government to account but letting others slip a bit in accountability. That can be done accidentally.

Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is a comparison you make by choice and is a deliberate attempt to be vicious

Nick J said...

Jim Rose, I'm not sure that a shot / bombed / shelled child in Gaza would be able to distinguish the difference between a Nazi and an Isreali soldier. That is however far more vicious an act played out with monotonous regularity by the IDF.

Puddleg said...

I never thought JC was anti-semitic himself, but if you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas. Whatever his conscience might say, there are potentially more votes for Labour or for JC as leader in tolerating antisemitism in the BDP movement than in denouncing it in any meaningful way.

greywarbler said...

Jim Rose\
I cannot agree that comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is vicious. It may
be unpleasant to you but vicious can be applied to actions by both countries. It is in actions that most viciousness is seen

Chris Morris said...

Some of the commentary may be over the top, but some of the senior members of the Labour Party under Mr Corbyn have done things that almost everyone would consider anti-Jewish. I am not talking about support for some non-terrorist Palestinian organisations (there are a few) but full-blooded anti-Jew sentiment. It even has been in attacks against members of Labour's own caucus, that were supported by the leadership (Chris Williamson and Claudia Webbe are prime examples). That is why there is so much concern about the way the party has been heading

John Hurley said...

As a principled leftist
Ideology doesn't occur in a vacuum. The "principled" think principles ought to work and if they don't "we will damn well make them!" The left are inclined to the "we can change the masses" view of human nature.

See this piece where deontologists are compared to consequentialistsin a lifeboat dilemma.

Wayne Mapp said...


If you seriously can't see that comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is not a problem, well you have a problem.

Think about it for just a moment. The Nazi regime was the worst regime, probably in all of human history, certainly in the last 500 years, that systematically and cold bloodily killed 9 million people, 6 million being Jews. Comparing Israel to that, notwithstanding the problems with the occupation, is almost certainly going to have there person who does so branded an anti semite. Nazi Germany was the most anti jewish state in all of human history, so such a comparison is just about the most offensive thing you can do.

In any event it means that Israel and its supporters will instantly and completely dismiss such a person holding such views as someone with whom there can be no rational dialogue. So if you want to change Israel, the comparison is completely counter productive.

By all means criticise Israel for the things that it does. Many things it does in the occupation are wrong. Including settlements and excessive force. But it is not remotely like Nazi Germany.

greywarbler said...

Okay Chris Morris
That sounds concerning - about anti-Jewish comments from the Labour Party.
One does have to ask though, is it not possible to criticise Jews? Maybe there is some fault that should be put right by right-thinking people?

Could you, when you have a moment, look up the egregious examples of Williamson and Webbe and provide us with links so we can read what they have been up to. Also a couple of links of others from Britain that you might come across. Jews are likely to be very sensitive to growing negative attitudes, as we should all be. So is there a concern about the growth of Jung's 'shadow'?

This seems a discussion of a book on Carl Jung and his setting, Switzerland, a small nation state. It might be interesting about the man and also how this small country operates and thinks and cast light
on what emerges here in our ways.

Chris Morris said...

Greywarbler - do your own research on British politics. There are plenty of blogs around that do that. Order Order is a good easy one to read. And look at who has been pushing for all the Jewish MPs to leave the party.

Chris Morris said...

Rather than go down the rabbithole of putting up one link and then it is a shitfight over that single source, you can investigate the background to these:

Guerilla Surgeon said...

There is Zionism and there is Zionism. A Zionism that says Jews are entitled to a self-governing nation is one thing. Zionism that oppresses Palestinians and keeps nibbling away at Palestinian land putting a two state solution out of reach is another.

Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is not only morally wrong, it's tactically ridiculous. Apartheid South Africa is a far better comparison. And you have United Nations and Nelson Mandela on your side which gives you a certain moral authority.

Victor said...

This is probably the last time that I’ll post anything on Bowalley Road. That’s not, I hasten to add, because I’m in a huff over anything (no, not even over the issue of who should or should not be allowed to hold meetings at the Bruce Mason Centre!)

Rather, it’s because a ‘progressive condition’ has now ‘progressed’ to the point at which I can’t type or, indeed, do anything time-intensive on a computer, without chronic pain. So, once this session is over, it will be time for me to sign off.

Why, then, am I imposing this final strain on myself (and doing so at inordinate length) instead of just sloping-off into cyber-silence ?

It’s because the subject matter of this thread concerns me intimately, as a British-born Jew, who is broadly sympathetic to the centre-left, who has quite a few relations in Israel, is strongly critical of that country but believes in its right to continued existence as well as in the long overdue necessity of creating a viable, independent Palestine.

As such, I’ve followed the debate over UK Labour’s antisemitism issues at some length and discussed them with several British friends(both Jewish and otherwise, as well as both Labour-voting or otherwise). As a result, I view the matter as a mite more complex than Chris’s post suggests.

In fact, I’m reminded of the ancient Jewish joke in which a rabbi receives a visit from a distraught young married woman who tells him all about her husband’s faults and weaknesses. Each time she pauses, the rabbi strokes his beard and says: “You know what? You’re right!”.

Then, the following evening, the husband comes round uninvited to discuss the same obviously strained marriage. Again, the rabbi strokes his beard and, each time there’s a pause, says : “ You know what? You’re right!”.

Anyhow, the rabbi’s wife has been listening in secret to both conversations and decides to berate her husband on his pusillanimous approach:

“What kind of a rabbi are you? Both these nice young people want your help. Instead of agreeing with them all the time, you should be giving them some advice on how to mend their marriage!”

And the rabbi strokes his beard and says : “You know what, you’re right as well!”.

Yes, Chris, you’re right to say that the antisemitism issue is being used by Corbyn’s critics (who are numerous, focused and often unscrupulous) to discredit him and by those who wish to delegitimise all criticism of Israel.

But it’s also true that Labour has an antisemitism problem, which 'Jezza' has helped to fan, more through a kind of defiant tone-deafness than through any malign intent. And although I’d agree that he’s almost certainly devoid of any antisemitic animus, I can’t say that of some of his friends either in the UK or beyond.

....more to come

Victor said...

....continuing previous post

Part of the background to all this is the current global rise in anti-Semitism. To some extent, this has come in response to Israel’s lamentable behaviour towards the Palestinians. But it’s also because both the internet and the long drawn-out consequences of the GFC have helped foster a revival of classic antisemitic memes (e.g. the alleged pursuit of global domination and globally murderous mayhem by a secret cabal of those possessing inherently malign genes etc. etc.).

Faced with a post-Holocaust, politically correct, requirement not to appear overtly racist, such doctrines have now morphed into a version which ascribes to "Zionists" the same diabolic drive for global domination once foisted on Jews per se. You will recall at least one posting to that effect on this website.

It’s this version that seems to have found unexpectedly fertile soil midst some parts of Labour’s left. Jews can escape being tarred by this brush if they make their total and virulent hatred of Israel clear. If not, they too are ‘Zios’, a neologism which seems sometimes to mean little more than the traditionally racist ‘Yids’ and sometimes villainy worthy of Marlowe’s “Jew of Malta”. Even Momentum’s founder, John Lansman has, if I recall rightly, faced this type of abuse.

Now, I know that many of Corbyn’s Jewish critics within Labour are on the party’s right and, in some cases, have extensive ties with Israel, if not necessarily with its government. But I have no doubt of the truth and sincerity of, for example, Ruth Smeeth’s account in the Commons of what she’s been up against. Moreover, Chris, I challenge you as a man of broad, humane sensibilities, not to be moved by it:

And all this is taking place against a broader background of increasing casual ‘dinner party’ antisemitism and of a much more troubling rise in hate crimes that may not normally be the work of the left but nevertheless help feed the fears of British Jews:

I could go on in this vein at considerable length. But the upshot, in brief, is that at least some of Anglo-Jewry is genuinely starting to wonder (just that tiny little bit) whether it still has a future in a country which once offered it a freedom and dignity far greater than that traditionally available in most of the rest of Europe. And that seems to be something felt in the gut, rather than just suggested by Tory or Likudnik chancers.

In my family, no-one has ever made the mistake of over-estimating my intelligence. Even so, my brother-in-law told my sister a few months back about how much he respected my foresight in leaving the UK for New Zealand a third of a century ago. Of course, he’d given me far too much credit. I didn’t come here to escape antisemitism, which was barely evident at the time, but because I’d fallen in love with the deep blue of the Pacific and a young woman reared close to its shores.

That said, I kept reflecting, during last year’s NZ general election,on my good fortune in living in a country where I could still vote for a centre-left government, without worrying at the back of my mind about enabling harm to me and my kind. It’s something for which I remain deeply grateful.

....yet more to come

Victor said...

...continuing previous posts

So now let’s turn, briefly and inadequately, to the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism. To my mind, it’s a totally flawed document, atrociously written and badly thought through. But I don’t agree with you that it’s being urged on Labour’s NEC wholly or even primarily because it helps delegitimise criticism of Israel, although, to some extent, it would have that effect.

Many of those who have protested at the NEC’s refusal to adopt this unsatisfactory piece of scribbling holus-bolus are themselves trenchant critics of Israel, including some of the 68 rabbanim, from across the religious spectrum who, earlier this month, wrote jointly to the media on the subject.

Similarly, just last week, Anglo-Jewry’s main representative body, the Board of Deputies was loud in its denunciations of Israel’s wholly reprehensible law that both downgrades the legal status of Arabic and declares that, within the state's frontiers, only Jews have the right to self-determination.

The respected scholar, Brian Klug, is of the opinion that, broadly speaking, Anglo-Jewry and its leaders are demanding the whole IHRA document and nothing but the IHRA document because, in effect, after years of Labour’s shilly-shallying, the community has lost confidence in the party’s good intentions.

Brian is also of the view that Labour is now making a serious attempt to put matters right and that the NEC’s antisemitism code is, in some respects, more fit for purpose than the IHRA document, with which it shares many features. Those are my words and not his and I strongly recommend that you read his article:

Where do we go from here? Your guess is as good as mine.

Meanwhile, Chris, reverting to my role as values-free pedant,I think I have to differ with you over the historic relationship between UK Labour and the State of Israel.

Yes, Attlee and Bevin faced major problems as a result of the Zionist decision to “go for broke” in the immediate aftermath of the Holocaust. But, for most of the following decades, ties between UK Labour and its then dominant Israeli equivalent were(for good or ill) very close indeed, and particularly during the epoch of Harold Wilson and Golda Meir.

.....and just one more post to come

Victor said...

....concluding my remarks

So, finally, to myself. May I thank you, Chris, for all the pleasure, angst and intellectual stimulus you’ve provided me with over the last decade. And may I also thank all of your regular contributors with whom I’ve crossed swords (yes, even jh....even “Pamela”!!!!)

In particular, I’d like to say how much I’ve enjoyed finding myself in reasonably frequent agreement with GS. I don’t think either of us imagined this would happen. Perhaps, we’ve just grown old together. Whatever the explanation, GS, I consider you a mate and hope things work out for your son.

And Brendan, I still very much consider you a mate, even though the grounds for agreement between us are even less spacious than heretofore. Greetings also to Charles, Kat, David Stone, greywarbler, Nick J and to Olwyn the Wise, if she’s around.

I should point out that my health issues are merely skeletal and not (as far as I can make out) organic. They’re just something to which I need to accommodate myself.

Incidentally, my condition (scoliosis) is what we now know afflicted that much maligned monarch, Richard III of England.

My personal theory is that Bold King Dickon was so fed up with it that he went searching for Henry Tudor on Bosworth Field in the hope of either ending his own life in single combat or cutting the head off treason in perpetuity, thus allowing his spine the ease and comfort it needed, free from the occasional requirement to wield mace or battle-axe.

As I’ve no reason to wield a battle-axe, such dilemmas are not for me. Moreover,if the people who design voice-activated software would rouse themselves from their perpetual low plateau, I might, just like the Terminator,be back.

Take care y'all!


Andrew Nichols said...

"But it is not remotely like Nazi Germany...."

Wayne. Maybe not in total (It's far more like Apartheid SA with each passing day) but the brutal blockade and Turkey in a barrel shootups of Gaza have many elements in common with the Warsaw Ghetto (which didnt last nearly as long).

Charles E said...

Well said W Mapp.
Nick J and greywaffle, you really show a huge flaw either in your knowledge or your character if you don't see the disgraceful and racist implications of comparing Israeli to Nazi actions.
And Corbyn doesn't get that he effectively is doing similarly when he refuses, always and gratuitously if he can to recognise Israel as the now homeland of the Jewish people; or ever say their self defence is justified. He is always on the wrong side, and don't give us any drivel about him not choosing sides. He is always against the West and his own country and anyone remotely close to the US. Always. I think it is clearly self hatred, in pop psych terms.

Chris you are right, there is a significant difference to being against Israel and anti-Semitic. But as most people fully equate Jews and Israel, out of ignorance, it amounts to the same thing these days so you are being disingenuous. Like Corbyn. He does it for votes of course. And he hates successful people. How about you?

It should be no different than being utterly opposed to Iran, as I am but liking very Persian I've met. Or taking it further, being utterly opposed to Islam but having nothing against ordinary poor suckers who have been brainwashed into it from birth.
But it is different because of a vast horrific history of persecution, and you know it.
So does your hero Corbyn.

greywarbler said...

I have lost my comment. But I think that this wikipedia list of German/Jewish scholars is a monument to the greatness of old Germany before WW2. It is important that Israel does not diminish into a lesser civilisation and lose its soul in the process.

Chris Trotter said...

To: Victor.

First of all, Victor, let me say how sorry I will be to lose your wise words from the Bowalley Road commentary threads. They have lifted this little site to places I earnestly hoped it would reach but, knowing the Internet, had little hope of it ever achieving. May I say, too, how sorry I am to learn of your condition. Not being able to write would be a crushing blow for me - as I suspect it is for you.

As for Mr Corbyn and the charges of antisemitism brought against him. Once again, I am deeply indebted to you for the broader perspective on this issue which you have provided. I will follow the links you have supplied with considerable interest.

I have long been a supporter of Israel, whose very existence I count as a sort of secular miracle. The tragedy, for me, is how easy the current political leadership is making it for her enemies - who will grab any opportunity to cast her as a criminal state beyond redemption.

To conclude, Victor, let me, once again, express my thanks for your many contributions and to place on record my deep, deep admiration for your true and humbling wisdom.

I will miss you. We will all miss you.


Nick J said...

Charles, I am very aware of the difference between Nazi Germany and Is real, which is why it pains me that such a civilized society should as policy allow their troops to commit atrocities that parallel the brutality of Nazi troops. If you believe that this is acceptable then your moral compass is severely warped.

Nick J said...

Victor, echoing Chris, he sums it up well. Hopefully you will somehow manage to stay with us without causing yourself suffering, and giving us pain when we transgress too much. I'm experimenting with voice recognition typing....not great but maybe it will get there for us both.

Been great conversing, travel well friend.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Bugger it Victor, that was a monumental effort after a hiatus. Been having a bit of a sabbatical myself, because I am sick of the sheer rudeness and ignorance of conservatives although, to be fair they're not so bad here as they are on the other blogs I frequent. Still, I've made amazing progress in reading "The Rest Is Noise" a book that ties together society and the history of music in the 20th century, by a very intelligent music critic from the US, called Alex Ross. One of the best $23 worth I've ever spent, and if I knew something about music it probably would be THE best. Unfortunately I don't. But it occurred to me that it would be a good book for you to read – you being dead intellectual and all, and the number of composers who were Jewish who had to leave Germany in the 30s who got jobs in Hollywood..... And I've sort of been waiting for you to come back so I could recommend it. Apologies if you've already read it. :)
And then you hit us with the typing thing. I think I have a possible solution to that as well, assuming you are using some sort of computer to access this website, and assuming it's not a Macintosh. I can't type for more than five or 10 minutes myself, so I use Dragon dictation software. It's sometimes quite frustrating, and it seems to have trouble with the New Zealand accent, but it's so much better and faster for me to use it than to try pecking away to find that my arms hurt like buggery after such a short time. If it takes that to preserve your presence here you might like to give it a try. Hell, I have several old versions I'd be willing to give you if I could find them. And definitely worth a punt if it keeps you – like me – alert and able to communicate with the wider world. Particularly as you have a damn sight more patience and are a lot slower to anger than I am.:) Which I have aspired to copy, but – too much testosterone my doctor says. Really hope to see you back Victor.

Chris Morris said...

Charles E - you are trying to tie everything up in semantics rather than just doing any research - at least that's how it appears to me.
Many of the complaints about senior members of the British Labour Party have been that they attacked and denigrated born and bred British people who were Jewish. They were not anti-Israel, they were anti-Jew. More than a few people attacked were secular Jews, so it wasn't against religion, but race.
And you can't say that the information isn't there. Even the Independent has devoted a webpage to all the articles about it.

greywarbler said...

Don't leave us. I went to the GP with what I hope is a temporary diminishment of vision and he explained to me how to get the information about the condition from google using their voice option.

I am sure that there is something that will convert speech into text with an app. Or perhaps a person in your life could transcribe dictated thoughts, or even type as you think for half an hour or so.

Your opinions are valuable - considered and relating to experience and knowledge. Please see what you can do to keep going while your mind is revolving. In the meantime had you read Daughter of Time by Josephine Tey which looks at Richard the Third in a 'novel' way? Here is something about the book.

Chris Morris said...

To show how bad the Corbyn supporters have become - one (Mr Billy Bragg) did a series of tweets that Jews have a lot of work to do to regain the trust of the Labour Party.
Imagine the fuss if say a Trump supporter like Ted Nugent tweeted something like this.

swordfish said...

Oh, Victor, that's a bloody shame !!! Your contributions = always eloquent, humane, erudite and marked by careful deliberation. I enjoyed the occasional debates / discussions we used to have when I posted as Markus a decade or so back. Best wishes for the future.

On the issue at hand, I very much agree with Chris's interpretation here (although I've long felt that - regarding pre-1967 Israel - he's allowed himself to be overly influenced by the now thoroughly-demolished Official Zionist version of Middle East history).

Nick J said...

This story is very pertinent to the anti Semitic argument in British Labour because it highlights the current thinking on "race". It also highlights the cognitive dissonance of the Liberal Left in addressing reality.

In short a Labour MP has been removed from the Shadow Cabinet and had to have added security because she told the truth. She said thousands of white girls were being raped by Pakistani men.

Charles E said...


You are a gem we must not lose.. I agree with greywarbler.. for once... even GS.
You see what unity and good will you create!

How about that marvellous software call Dragon or something that types for you from speech? I have seen it done and it works really well. You could do it in a Word doc then easily copy & paste to here.
Or record a verbal WhatsApp message to one of us and we will type it.
I would be happy to.

Charles E said...

My wife's family are British Jews and my first wife was a French Jew. We are still in touch. In both countries many of their fellows are thinking about emigrating to Israel but really would prefer not to. Antisemitism is on the rise on the left in Western Europe and is virulent in the Muslim communities in Europe who should never have been installed there in the first place. In those West hating communities anti-Semitism is encouraged and taught. The majority of Muslims are anti-Semites across the globe these days. Partly this is due to the success of Israel and the failure of almost every Muslim dominated country across the ME and the world. But it is also because of the US which has a thriving and prominent Jewish community.
So these days, from a Jewish point of view at least, the left is in fact becoming fascist, like Islam clearly is, and Israel the ancient and now renewed homeland of the Jews is on the frontline against fascists. But this time I am sure they will defeat the bastards.

A current, and slightly connected example of how some on the left have become intolerant, bigoted, oppressive and yes actually like fascists are the loudest opponents of these presumably rather rude and provocative Canadians who are coming here to talk about.. whatever…. it is not relevant. Who wants to shut them up and even violently oppose them? Extreme left wingers and Muslims. These are the fascists to my mind, not the Canadians. And the media keeps referring to the visitors as ‘extreme right-winger’! They are nothing of the sort. There are way worse that those two out there. The only extremists around here are Peace Action & Islamist.
There are of course many admirable exceptions on the left and I congratulate you Chris on putting your head up to defend free speech. It does you huge credit.
Those that don’t are a disgrace, and as you point out, self-defeating. When the real fascists come for them, who will speak up to save them?

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Guerilla Surgeon said...

"Imagine the fuss if say a Trump supporter like Ted Nugent tweeted something like this."

Funny, Ted regularly says stuff like that. And conervatives don't seem to mind.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Fascinating Charles. Because of all the fuss about this freedom of speech thing I made a quick trawl round the various right wing blog sites. Both the tasteful and the less than tasteful. And I must say when there was some mad mullah invited along to speak in New Zealand a few years ago the conversation was less about free speech, and more about "Why the fuck are these people even allowed in the country!" So congratulations on the relatively new conservative appreciation for free speech.

I also had a look at deplatforming, and found that one of the biggest offenders around the world is the religious right. And the only people that seem to be complaining about that are the "crypto fascist" left. Conservatives just seem to take it in their stride.

And perhaps you should ask yourself why there is so much anti-Semitism in the Muslim world. Perhaps it might have something to do with the "deplatforming" of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs.

Chris Morris said...

Are you certain about Ted Nugent, GS or are you just into truthiness and general smears? Scanning his tweets for the last 18 months, it seems there is way too much about guns and hunting, some about Trump and his enemies and nothing I saw about Muslims.
I don't know if Nugent still tours, but Bragg does and he is idolized by a lot on the left.

Chris Morris said...

GS If your comments about Ted Nugent refer to things like this: or this
He is not anti-Muslim, just anti-radicals. There is a big difference that most can easily recognise

Chris Morris said...

Back to the original post - It seems Mr Corbyn's past is coming back to haunt him
Most people have skeletons in the closet. Some have a whole graveyard.

sumsuch said...

I expected the 32 comments re the Jewish colonisation v. the British one nearer to home. Says a lot (not least about myself). COLONISATION says everything about both.

Unknown said...

Arabs tried to destroy Israel in open warfare in 1948,1967 and 1973. Having failed miserably (though the Egyptians initially did well in '73) they then decided to resort to cowardly attacks on civilians.

There is only one Jewish state and it is only one sixth the size of Te-Waka-O-Maui. The rest of the Middle East and North Africa are solidly Arab and almost entirely Muslim. And what a fascinating collection of mostly impoverished, often war torn, despotic shitholes they are.

If those Arabs currently residing in Israel, and this includes east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, do not like Jewish rule then might I suggest the bugger off to some other part of the Middle East.

If they refuse to move then might I suggest they at least stop firing rockets into Israel and stop teaching their children to hate the Jews.

Long Live Israel!

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Chris. Spent considerable time yesterday finding statements that Nugent made, racist statements about black people being prone to violence, and about President Obama being a mongrel. And of course his charming invitation to Hilary Clinton to suck on his machine gun. They don't seem to have shown up. I'm not doing it again you can easily find them yourself with the clues I've given you.

Victor said...

A brief and inadequate thanks for all the kind comments above.

You've convinced me that I really do need to get to grips with voice-activated software, so that I can come back and plague you.

And I also need to find a means of supporting my neck whilst focusing on a screen for any length of time.

I've always been a slow adapter to new technology. So don't hold your breath. But, somehow or other, I will be back.

Please take this as a warning (sort of)



Phil Saxby said...

It has been a pleasure to read these comments. Thank you, all of you.

Charles E said...

Shane I agree with you and am on your side but (a bit of self-reflection here) it does not help the poor innocent civilians in these Arab Muslim countries to be right about the internal and seemingly eternal source of their troubles.
To take another tack, there are a great many people in Israel, many on the left but still Zionists of course, who seek to improve the life chances of the Arabs in Israel and in the wider Arab world. Why wouldn’t you if you want an end to war and other violence around you? So it is even more of a tragedy that the likes of Corbyn's lot do not see that Israel in fact is one of the few hopes for the ME, outside its heavily armed borders. It deserves support not their vitriol.
I hope, most likely in vain, that one of the accidental side effects of dumb Trump's policies will be a growing recognition that the remaining non war-torn Arab countries should join with Israel in not only removing all poisonous Iranian influence in their territory but building a better more humane region together.
Unfortunately that would in my mind require a full reformation and enlightenment of Islam, which is one of the main causes of their tribal backwardness. For example, a Muslim women probably is safer and has more liberty and legal rights in Israel today than in a great many Muslim countries. That is ludicrous and points at one of the solutions I believe: The liberation of women in all countries is essential to progress.