Wednesday 25 October 2023

Disinformation From The Left.

Dangerously Persuasive: When Hamas unleashes terror in Southern Israel, and the State of Israel unleashes hell in retaliation, disinformation is important. Which is why, by way of example, the Instagram message released a day ago by Pere Huriwai-Seger on behalf of the Aotearoa Liberation League is important.

DISINFORMATION has been part and parcel of the political process since, well, forever. It was only in the Nineteenth Century, however, that the need to create narratives advantageous to one’s own cause, and disadvantageous to one’s opponents, gained access to technologies enabling disinformation to be communicated at great speed and on a massive scale. With the dawning of the Twentieth Century, even more startling technological innovations upped the effectiveness of disinformation by several orders of magnitude. The old adage: “A lie will be half way around the world before Truth has pulled his boots on”; became a straightforward description of reality. By the Twenty-First Century, technology had advanced to the point where the separation of truth from falsehood required the adjudication of experts – and the ability to distinguish fake expertise from the real thing.

When people talk about disinformation today, it is almost always from within a left-wing narrative framework. The villains behind the disinformation tsunami allegedly inundating the civilised world are identified as white supremacists, misogynists, transphobes, anti-vaccination zealots, and fundamentalist Christians.

In normal circumstances, the pet-hates of leftists don’t carry very much weight. Unfortunately, the life of the world stopped being normal in January 2020, as it became clear that a novel coronavirus – Covid-19 – was about to ignite a global pandemic. Fearful that the small but very vocal clusters of anti-vaccination zealots, located in just about all Western nations, would undermine the public health and immunological measures vital to fighting the virus, public servants began establishing anti-disinformation units to identify and counter the lies being spread about Covid-19, and, more importantly, the vaccines developed in record time to bring it under control.

In those countries with centre-left national and/or state governments, most particularly the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, politicians and activists moved swiftly to extend the brief of these disinformation units to encompass just about all of the Left’s pet-hates. The situation was not improved by the intervention of national security agencies alarmed at the volume of Russian and Chinese disinformation pouring onto Western social media platforms.

From the perspective of the Left, this conflation of Far-Right disinformation with the disinformation emanating from authoritarian nation states would prove to be enormously helpful. A pro-censorship position, which at least some of the mainstream media might have challenged, could now be presented as a matter of national security. In New Zealand, willingness to buy into this aspect of the anti-disinformation project was aided by the still raw memories of the Christchurch Mosque Massacres. Far-Right lies could produce deadly consequences, argued the Left. Free speech should not be considered an unqualified good, not when it empowers “bad actors”.

What the New Zealand Left – notoriously ignorant of its own, and the international movement’s history – finds it almost impossible to accept is that disinformation (or, as it was once, more honestly, known: “propaganda”) was, and is, every bit as rampant on the revolutionary left, as it was, and is, on the reactionary right. Indeed, modern disinformation/propaganda was more-or-less invented by Willi Münzenberg, a German political impresario, commissioned by the Communist International to spread the Bolshevik’s revolutionary creed across the West. Tactics we take for granted today: front organisations, activist celebrities, newspapers, magazines, plays, movies, and phonograph records – all with an easily digestible political sub-text, were Münzenberg’s inventions. In the early 1920s, the Right had nothing to match “Willi’s Wurlitzer”.

Not that the state-subsidised Disinformation Project would ever acknowledge the fact, but the effectiveness of New Zealand’s right-wing disinformers is well below that of their left-wing rivals. Better educated, more articulate, technically more proficient, and – most importantly – working with, not against, the grain of New Zealand’s official “progressive” ideology, New Zealand’s left-wing activists’ political and cultural production throws that of the Right into the shade. Their output can be found on Facebook, Instagram, X and Tik-Tok – global platforms often denied to the Right by Silicon Valley’s “progressive” billionaires. Freed from the need to hawk their ideological wares in the murky swamps of Telegram, the Left’s disinformers/propagandists have no need for false identities. Operating freely, under their own names, they have ready access to the hearts and minds of millions.

Not that very many New Zealanders know or care what the Left is saying. Indeed, political speech only becomes important in moments of national and international crisis. In the middle of a global pandemic, disinformation is important. When Russia invades Ukraine, disinformation is important. When Hamas unleashes terror in Southern Israel, and the State of Israel unleashes hell in retaliation, disinformation is important. Which is why, by way of example, the Instagram message released a day ago (22/10/23) by Pere Huriwai-Seger on behalf of the Aotearoa Liberation League (a front organisation comprised of Pere and his wife Sarah) is important.

With film-star good looks and a compelling verbal style, Pere commands the viewers attention from the moment he authoritatively disabuses them of any notion that what is currently unfolding in Gaza is not their fight. New Zealand, he informs them “has troops involved”. An alarming “fact” if one’s knowledge of New Zealand’s role in the Middle East is poor – i.e. most of the New Zealand population. That Pere flashes up a media release explaining that New Zealand has eight military personnel serving in the United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation in no way excuses his claim that the country has troops involved. In the minds of his viewers his words will have conjured up images of Kiwi soldiers rubbing shoulders with members of the Israeli Defence Force. It’s misinformation shading into disinformation.

Pere’s pace is brisk, and just seconds later he is informing his viewers that New Zealand has “long supported the colonisation of Palestine”. This is historical nonsense – and malicious nonsense at that. He states as a fact that New Zealand “invaded” Palestine and “seized it for Britain” in 1917. Curiously, he neglects to inform his viewers that the New Zealand Mounted Rifles was merely one unit in the British Expeditionary Force waging war against the Ottoman Empire, of which Palestine was a mere province. According to Pere, the province was handed over to “Zionist terrorists”. Curiouser and curiouser, since Ottoman Palestine was actually handed over to the British by the League of Nations as a “mandated territory”, and remained in British hands until 1948.

But Pere is just getting warmed-up. While they were busy making Palestine safe for Zionism, argues Pere, the Kiwis treated the Palestinian people “horribly”. He cites the Surafend massacre of 1918 as proof.

What happened at Surafend wasn’t pretty, but it didn’t happen out of the blue. Troopers of the NZ Mounted Rifles and the Australian Light Horse went to the village of Surafend to secure the surrender of the Palestinian Arab who had shot dead a New Zealander, Trooper Leslie Lowry, after stealing his kit-bag. Their demand refused, the Anzacs attacked the men of the village (having evacuated the women and children to a place of safety) killing between 40 and 200 Arabs, and setting their houses on fire. The Anzac perpetrators received a tongue-lashing from the British commander, Allenby, but none of them were ever punished.

Had Pere homed-in on the Surafend massacre right from the start of his video, he could have presented a picture of New Zealand’s complicity in British, and later American, imperialism that was not only persuasive by truthful. Instead, by surrounding the Surafend massacre with a string of disinformative statements, the whole four-minute video becomes an exercise in the most blatant propaganda. And not just any propaganda, Pere’s falsehoods are the falsehoods of Hamas and their Iranian backers – whose cause Pere equates with the cause of Māori nationalism in Aotearoa. Presumably, what Hamas terrorists did to the Jewish inhabitants of Southern Israel is what decolonisation looks like.

Imagine the reaction of the Disinformation Project if they had found a video presentation promoting right-wing disinformation and hate on such a scale. A video dripping with Islamophobic hate in the same way Pere’s drips with annihilationist hatred of Israel. Such a video would have been presented to the mainstream media as evidence of the danger posed by radical political extremism; of the need to take decisive action against such horrific hate speech.

And the mainstream media would have lapped it up.

This essay was originally posted on The Democracy Project website on Monday, 23 October 2023.


RedLogix said...

I was until recently the longest standing participant at The Standard - joining that site within days of it's first appearance in 2007. For the first seven or so years it was for the most part oriented to political narratives we might largely recognise as social democrat, trad-Labour interests. With a splash of Green eco concerns in the mix. There were always a few marginal extremists about - but hell that's the internet for you.

From around 2014 onward something changed. I could name names and point to specific events in detail. As a moderator and editor I had access to all of this in the backend. It went from being a simple administrative space to a cesspit of hatred and vileness the public facing side never saw. I withdrew from that fairly quickly.

From that time on I saw a progression of issues - rape culture as an excuse to hate men, climate extremism as an excuse to de-grow the modern world back into poverty, the BLM scam, blatant anti-white bigotry used to justify decolonisation - and more. Perhaps the most sickening was the endless, uncritical tankie cult abdicating all morality to celebrate Putin's brutalisation of Ukraine. That plus the utter denial of any possible trade-offs around St Jacinda's vax mandates and lockdowns - and blatant abuse of moderation to impose this caused me to permanently leave some months ago. In hindsight I stayed far too long although it has given me a front row seat and insight into what has happened. And a lot of hard lessons. I look back and shuddered at much of my naivity.

Next up - now we see globally a barely concealed glee at HAMAS's savagery across the much of the left. And this I cannot equivocate with - I repudiate it with every fibre of my being.

On every cause they push this so called 'woke movement' (although that term alone I believe understates their true nature) exploits something good people might have legitimate concerns about - and twist them to an evil purpose. The nominal cause espoused is nothing but a scam, their own words and actions eventually make this clear. I have long suspected their actual goal- the utter destruction of the Western ideal, but I stupidly hoped I was wrong. Well now it is plain they are a lot closer to achieving this than even I imagined.

It is my sense that events of the past few weeks in the Holy Land are precipitating a great cleaving - and no-one will be exempt.

Shane McDowall said...

The Surafend massacre involved the killing of as few as 15 but possibly somewhere in the thirties.

Israelis should be on their knees every day thanking New Zealand for sending troops to liberate their 'homeland' from the Ottomans.

Turks love the fact that they won the Gallipoli Campaign, but appear unaware that they lost the war. The ANZACs lost a battle, but we won the bloody war.

And New Zealand troops were not involved in the three genocides committed by the Ottomans/Turks against the Armenians,Greeks and Assyrians. I believe a small number of Kiwi soldiers died defending refugees from Ottoman persecution.

Between the two world wars, European Jews showed little interest in moving to the Palestine Mandate. The USA and Canada were much more desirable than a barren, oil-less, wasteland in the Middle East.

This all changed in 1933 when Hitler became Chancellor of Germany. Suddenly 'Zion' started looking very good. Jews poured into the Palestine Mandate to such an extent that it sparked an Arab revolt in 1936, that was still going in 1939.

The Jews showed their gratitude by engaging in terrorist attacks against the British. Attacks that started before 1945.

I wish for a plague on both the Israelis and the Palestinians. They deserve each other

Guerilla Surgeon said...

So – you're happy that people are allowed to lie on various social media platforms? Because lies do have consequences.

The Conservative lie that Saddam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction caused the deaths of – how many people? Probably in the hundreds of thousands.

The lie that cigarette smoking is not addictive and doesn't cause cancer – how many deaths there do you think?

What about the lie that the German army was stabbed in the back in 1918?

What about the protocols of the Elders of Zion?

What about the Reichstag fire?

What about "vaccines cause autism"?

What about Covid misinformation?

The problem is that all you free-speech absolutists go on and on about speech while admitting that lies can travel round the world and so on, don't ever acknowledge that they cause people to die, and don't seem to have any idea about what to do about it. In fact I've never come across any one of you that it's even acknowledged it.

Because you think censorship of course should be out of the question. But unfortunately lies and misinformation/disinformation is akin to fraud. It should be punished as such. After all we punish victimless crimes – or used to – such as prostitution, drug use and the like. Misinformation and disinformation has victims.

"New Zealand’s left-wing activists’ political and cultural production throws that of the Right into the shade. Their output can be found on Facebook, Instagram, X and Tik-Tok – global platforms often denied to the Right by Silicon Valley’s “progressive” billionaires."


Jesus Chris, you are way out of date on this one. Since Elon musk took over Twitter it has become at cesspit of extreme right nuttery. Similarly with Quora, the question answering site since they got rid of 99% of all their moderators

Musk could hardly be described as a progressive for Christ sake he's practically a Nazi. Not to mention he senses anyone who disagrees with him – and they tend to be on the left.

Certainly that part of your column is pretty much on a par with your conspiracy theory about the gas pipeline and the United States. Not your best work.

Anonymous said...

Good subject.

But at risk of being burnt alive at the stake for daring mention the subject, the modern middle class left are unrivaled for political propaganda to benefit their cause by using climate change terror as the vehicle. The savior is to vote progressive left.

Climate change is normal and its gone on forever. But the modern progressive left have ensured it's man made, and it will not be debated because they know it does not withstand scrutiny. Anyone who has the audacity to question this quasi religion is first labelled a denier or similar, humiliated, excluded then cancelled. Think the Labour governments approach to Covid vaccination, it's just the same method from the lefts playbook. Time honoured authoritarianism!

When dire predictions fail to materialise, (Global Warming) or are found so ridiculously wanting, the narrative is quietly amended and the disciples nod sagely and earnestly carry on, new phrases and all.

And it's the terror of the"world is burning" or "boiling" and we only have X and then Y years before it's all too late that literally scares the bejesus out of the young and impressionable. They hang off motorway gantries and glue themselves to things, sobbing at the end of times unless we ban cars and oil. So you simply must vote middle class progressive. Hence Labour Green want a lowered voting age, because they are easy prey for their fanaticism.

The answer to the threat the impending apocalypse the progressive left use as a propoganda stick, roughly translates to riding bicycles, using the states abysmal public transport offerings, surrender freedom of movement, remain within 15 minute villages and be watched by our overlords, should we try and escape. Yes it's marketers miss out all of that but the miserable dystopian future they preach for will be the equivalent to pre Victorian era lives and life expectancies.

Some of its promoters have made handsomely from the cause and it's the basis for the modern puritan Green movement and it's puritan MP's. And it's here the climate change industry started to lose its credibility. Its all too damned convenient.

Madame Blavatsky said...

"Between the two world wars, European Jews showed little interest in moving to the Palestine Mandate. The USA and Canada were much more desirable than a barren, oil-less, wasteland in the Middle East."

History is complicated and it is never black and white. Only propaganda deals in absolutes and black and white. The realpolitik is that one of the best developments for the nascent state of Israel was the Nazis: Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany and Europe, while the Zionists wanted Jews to come to Israel. The role Hitler played in establishing Israel is, naturally, memory holed by the Jews today, because it completely goes against the propaganda.

In fact, when you consider the basic principle, Zionism and Nazism are basically the same thing, except the former is for Jews while the latter applies to Germanics: racial superiority, ultra-nationalism, ethnocentrism, hostility towards out-group minorities, authoritarian and antiliberal.

But if I'm a Jewish Zionist and therefore I have a very particular morality and standards that apply differently to the ingroup than they do to the outgroup, I'm not going to be concerned about the obvious hypocrisy of condemning "anti-semites" who don't support Israel and calling them Nazis because of it, when my entire worldview is built on principles comparable to those of a Nazi.

What's the saying? Accusing others of the very thing you yourself are guilty of?

Aldousk said...

"But unfortunately lies and misinformation/disinformation is akin to fraud"

And you perhaps are one of those magicians who can instantly detect misinformation/disinformation and fraud.

Madame Blavatsky said...

"So – you're happy that people are allowed to lie on various social media platforms? Because lies do have consequences.

The Conservative lie that Saddam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction caused the deaths of – how many people? Probably in the hundreds of thousands."

Firstly, who is to say what is and isn't a lie? If we are supposed to be a liberal democracy, then that entails people deciding for themselves what the truth is, not relying on someone else to think and decide for them. If you consider that leaving the quest for truth up to the people is too dangerous and has "consequences" then you can't also advocate liberal democracy. Perhaps if you want authorities to determine and pronounce the truth, then that will be, by definition, authoritarianism. This is the logical implication of what you are saying.

Second, back in 2003 when Power was united and lying to us about WMD in Iraq as a pretext for invasion and regime change, it would have been those questioning the claim (perhaps on a "cesspit of extreme right nuttery" such as X/Twitter if it existed at the time) who would have been called a "conspiracy theorist" and a spreader of disinformation (and we know the low regard you hold such people in). After all, each of those in the Pentagon and the State Department who promulgated that and other related lies were "experts" or "authorities" on the status of Iraq's WMD program, surely?

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Well madam – some lies are so egregious as to be obvious. What would you say to the Sandy Hook parents for instance whose lives have been shattered not only by the shooting of their kids, but by Alex Jones'tale that it never happened and they are all "crisis actors"?
The families had to sue, presumably at great expense and have not yet received a penny while Jones himself lives a life of luxury, hides his money, and continues to spout his bullshit.
We already have ways of determining lies – the courts. A famous case which you may remember, that right-wing hero and neo-Nazi pseudo-historian David Irving sued Deborah Lipstadt when she called him a Holocaust denier. And bankrupted himself doing it I might say – well deserved. Probably cost her a pretty penny as well. But the truth was eventually established. It may well be that the truth is established only after much damage has been done as in the case of Saddam Hussein, but at least people would be held accountable. I thought the right were all for accountability and transparency and the like?
The evidence is there that Twitter has become a haven for neo-Nazis and other nasties. (Did you bother to look at any of the links?) As has pretty much every site where moderation has been withdrawn. You might be happy with this, but decent people do tend to leave the platforms when this happens.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Further to what I wrote yesterday. I've never heard of this left-wing commentator. Neither has any of the young people that I know although it's not necessarily a huge sample. So how about providing us with a bit of background instead of simply mentioning him as an example of left-wing propaganda?
Of particular interest to me might be his reach. In youthful terms how many "subbies" does he have? I doubt if it's as many as right-wing figures like Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. He might be perhaps a tad smoother than either of them but that's not difficult, given that one is an arrogant prick, and the other has a facility for obscurantism. But I guarantee that they are closer to the broad right spectrum than he is to the left.
And that's another thing. This guy is no where near representative of the broad left – any more than Colin King-Ansell is of the broad right or for that matter Brendan is of the religious right. (It pains me to say it but he is somewhat moderate in that respect.) So apart from being wrong on the facts about the right being censored (I doubt really if it's possible to cancel anyone today anyway.) you seem to be guilty of nut picking Chris. Something that the Conservative commenters on this site are prone to do. I really don't think they are a good example for you to follow though.

David George said...

Madame B: "Zionism and Nazism are basically the same thing"

I guess you could make that case (although the appalling history of persecution and murder in Europe and the almost complete annihilation of the Jewish people and faith in the levant and North Africa calls for a measure of sympathy I believe) but, more importantly, what they are are examples of ethno nationalism.

That some among us are enamoured with the "river to the sea" terrorists is concerning to say the least.

Living as we do in a (relatively?) safe, free, fair, pluralistic and prosperous place and time, it's easy to forget just how much of history was none of those things. Your tribe was everything. Life and death.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

:That some among us are enamoured with the "river to the sea" terrorists is concerning to say the least."

"between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."

From the Likud charter.

I'm glad you're concerned David. Would you like to name them? Are you talking about us commentators here? Because if you are I can't think of anyone who is in fact enamoured with Hamas. Or are you talking more broadly? Because in any large enough group there are bound to be some eejits. And New Zealand is a pretty large group. What's more concerning to me is those of us who are enamoured with the extreme right, but each to his own.

Tom Hunter said...


Heh. I recall having quite a few online fights with you on Kiwiblog from its earliest days in 2003/4 through to about 2010 - mainly around the Iraq invasion, but also on other things like climate change and so forth.

For what its worth on the Iraq thing you were right and I was wrong. The US should not have invaded, although to be fair to myself I never bought the WMD bullshit, at least not to the extent of Labour leader Tony Blair's "15 minute" crap. For me it was more about trying to re-shape the entire Middle East into some form of democracy that might not create the likes of Al-Qaeda. Waste of time now I realise.

Sorry to hear about The Standard. Seriously, while I agreed with almost no idea pushed there, and while I recognised that raising even mild arguments would see me booted or banned, I did figure that it was merely Labour tribalism. Had no idea it was as bad as that behind the scenes, even if there were hints.

Oh well. Perhaps you can lend your weight toward Danyl McLauchlan's Alt-Centrism?

Tom Hunter said...

While old Far Lefters constantly and casually allude to their opponents as being "practically Nazis" they somehow manage to close their eyes to the Nazi allies.

Like this guy on Times Square proudly flashing the Swastika on his phone

Same protest was the one where the "pro-Palestinian" crowd chanted "There is only one solution" (wink).

And of course the Sydney Opera House protest chants of "Gas the Jews".

If you're in the mood for dark comedy the comment on that second X-link comes from a typical NW "Liberal" (US) Jew:
Just came home to hundreds of people outside of my apartment here in NYC calling for Intifada, which given recent events, may well be considered a call for the mass murder of Jews. Never did I expect to see this kind of open antisemitism so close to home.
What an idiot. As one of his commentators noted, you'd have to have been living under a rock to not see this coming in NYC and other Democrat cities plus university campuses. But then as a "lifelong Democrat" he probably did live, if not under a rock, then in a comfy Lefty bubble where he talked to nobody with contrary opinions.

John Hurley said...

Today on The Platform Michael Laws said that the whole point of coming here was to leave all that stuff (Israel-Palestine) behind "all the evil of the old world".
This reminds me of John Campbell and Peter Brown when Peter Brown suggested the large numbers of Asians would cause "resentment and division" because Laws is trying to suggest identity is shallow.

Eric Kaufman says: "People take history and identity quite seriously, and they see themselves connected to the feats of their ancestors, so history lives in the present even though the society looks totally modern"

Laws talked about protected Schafer beetles on a site in Cromwell, holding up development where houses could be built. Central Otago is the fastest-growing area in NZ. It is such a good place to live "people don't lock their doors when they go out, or lock their cars when they go into the supermarket" (he says.) [Authur Grimes used a similar argument for Auckland; "people come because it's a great place" - implying more = more].

Very busy in Queenstown today, with Asian drivers on all the bus stops. Laws calls this "the staple of the tourist industry". My friend complimented one on his English. He was born here so he's a New Zealander.

That's the way to destroy a people. ["Multiculturalism weakens a sense of belonging" - Isaiah Berlin agrees]
Somehow the Chinese guy is earning more than us. Perhaps it's the famed "connections"?
And if you ask Laws why earnings in tourism have tracked down (per capita) he will find an area of doubt to wiggle through, with some fast talk disappear and you'll be talking into the phone.

David George said...

"Twitter has become a haven for neo-Nazis"

I spend a bit of time on Twitter (X) and haven't encountered Nazis to any extent; a lot of Jew hate on there at the moment but what I've seen is from the far left/woke or Islamists. Twitter does have the community notes facility so that any lies can be pointed out and are directly attached below the offending tweet. Additionally, counter comment is free to call out and correct lies, propaganda and hate

Toxic extremists like this Pere character with their own websites are pretty much free to spew their stuff; no dissent or reasonableness allowed. The Twitter system is far better, despite any shortcomings it may have.

David George said...

An excellent and pertinent essay:


"When an individual is compelled to violate what she knows to be true, to substitute an ideological fantasy for reality, the result is psychological disintegration. Such a spectacle is a source of pleasure to the dominant elites for whom “forcing others…to feel and think like themselves becomes an internal necessity, a ruling concept”. This “necessity” can never be satiated. No level of deindustrialisation can cleanse the West of its “abuse” of Mother Earth, no ritualistic recitation of pronouns can redeem the “sins of the cis” and no atonement can ever be sufficient to repay the debt owed by the Jews for their “crimes”.

This impossibility of salvation makes sadism eternal."

"It’s that nakedness we see when a mob is implored to “punch a fucking Terf” or a Hamas terrorist decapitates a dying Jew with a garden hoe. Yet those who raise their fists in support are, without doubt, on “the right side of history” — that is, the winning side. Pathocrats almost always win, the few silencing the many, because it’s easier to be kind than to love.

If we are to survive this cruelty in the name of kindness, we need to separate what’s benign and beautiful in progressive ideologies from the pathological underbelly that’s overwhelmed them."

John Hurley said...

This person's objectivity is a breath of fresh air

David George said...

I meant to add; that UnHerd essay offers an explanation for the paradox of the "Be Kind" brigade's pathological embrace of hate and cruelty. It's not always clear of course, cloaked as it is in words of compassion, so learning to recognise it is important.

Of course Nietzsche had this pretty much figured out 140 years ago. From Thus Spake Zarathustra: On The Tarantulas

"Behold, this is the hole of the tarantula. Do you want to see the tarantula itself? Here hangs its web; touch it, that it tremble!

There it comes willingly: welcome, tarantula! Your triangle and symbol sits black on your back; and I also know what sits in your soul. Revenge sits in your soul: wherever you bite, black scabs grow; your poison makes the soul whirl with revenge.

Thus I speak to you in a parable—you who make souls whirl, you preachers of equality. To me you are tarantulas, and secretly vengeful. But I shall bring your secrets to light; therefore I laugh in your faces with my laughter of the heights. Therefore I tear at your webs, that your rage may lure you out of your lie-holes and your revenge may leap out from behind your word justice. For that man be delivered from revenge, that is for me the bridge to the highest hope, and a rainbow after long storms.

The tarantulas, of course, would have it otherwise. “What justice means to us is precisely that the world be filled with the storms of our revenge”—thus they speak to each other. “We shall wreak vengeance and abuse on all whose equals we are not”—thus do the tarantula-hearts vow. “And ‘will to equality’ shall henceforth be the name for virtue; and against all that has power we want to raise our clamor!”

You preachers of equality, the tyrannomania of impotence clamors thus out of you for equality: your most secret ambitions to be tyrants thus shroud themselves in words of virtue. Aggrieved conceit, repressed envy—perhaps the conceit and envy of your fathers—erupt from you as a flame and as the frenzy of revenge."

Anonymous said...

Had no idea you were a Christian GS, not that it matters, just interesting.

Brendan McNeill said...

Dear RedLogix

Thank you for your comments. It seems Chris is not the only one who is prepared to ‘call out’ his political team when they abandon their moral compass and fall short of the most basic standards of human decency. Support for Hamas and hatred of Jews being just one example that you mention.

There have been factions of the Left previously confined to Universities, but now metastasising throughout our non elected bureaucracy and State funded entities who are actively deconstructing the ‘western ideal’ as you accurately described it. Education being one obvious sector. We have taken our liberty for granted and the ‘great cleaving’ you allude to will likely be the price we pay.

David Stone said...

The only safe way to oppose disinformation / misinformation is to counter it with the truth (if anyone knows what it is) .Early on in the Covid saga I had discussions with a friend. At first when the Vaccines came out she said she would avoid them as there had not been enough testing or trials. A vaccine produced at Warp Speed was a singularly unattractive concept.
A little later she was persuaded by her son. It made me realise that all the people who had impressed me with their concerns about the vax provided a huge amount of background scientific information . They had excellent scientific and medical credentials and had every one of them been considered experts in their field until they offended the pro vaccine narrative concerning the mRNA experimental gene therapy products that required a redefinition of the word "vaccine" to be able to carry that name.I learnt a lot about my immune system and the complexity of it that i had never dreamed of. It's frightening to realise what an amazing complexity we all depend on and take for granted.
The pro vaccine governmental and medsafe by contrast offered no scientific information in support of their campaign whatsoever. Just "trust us", We know, you don't have to know. Just get in line and take the jab or loose your livelihood.
And try to prevent anyone from hearing from those people who have the ability to really inform.
Misinformation and Disinformation in the sense those terms are being used now are more often than not the actual truth that
someone in authority does not want you to know or think about.

Kit Slater said...

Such propaganda repurposes false consciousness into anti-Semitism as the socialism of fools, as Stalin and others put it. Fools are common enough and easily convinced that Jews, representing the apotheosis of capitalism, are the enemy of Marxism. Where better to start than Israel, though Islam has a different directive – first the Saturday people, then the Sunday people. What many in the Western, ‘Christian’, world seem completely ignorant of is that Middle Eastern morality has retribution as a core trait. Lex talionis, an eye for an eye, is well understood by both sides. Smashing your opponent’s fist with your other cheek, not so much. But Palestine’s propagandists can trust their useful ‘friends’ to convey the conflict to the West in such terms that the ignorant understand.

Jews didn’t carry the Babylonian law with them in their travels and troubles until it was needed, now, in defence of their historic homeland.

Tom Hunter said...

Ironic in this discussion is that free speech is necessary precisely because it's the only way one can have free debate and inquiry, which in turn is the only way of establishing what is true - and what is disinformation, misinformation, or whatever other Orewellian term TPTB want to apply.

Hell, there were philosophers who figured this out within the context of their own debates more than 2000 years ago but it too centuries for it to spread into other areas of human thought and practice, ultimately resulting in science. So any contrary arguments are driven by the grubby needs of politics in the moment, which is why the endless wellspring of hypocrisy and double-standards, the Far Left, is now trying to push things like "structures of power" into even science.

To be fair the Far Left have only one standard, which is the pursuit, attainment and endless possession of total power over others, so all these other things they claim to support, like civil liberties and free speech, are just tools to be used and discarded as needed.

Without free speech one is left trusting "the authorities" - and who the hell are they? Who selected them? What's their real expertise, as opposed to having some ill-educated, ignorant MSM talking head pronounce them as "experts". What debates did they have? With who? What information, facts and assumptions were fed into those debates?

Without free speech all the debate occurs behind closed doors. There was a time when the Left did not accept that. Well not the Far Left obviously, whose world always ended up producing the likes of Pravda. The fact that there are some of the moderate Left now arguing for censorship is a sign that they now feel they're sufficiently in control of our institutions that they can demand the Trust Us And Shut Up path.

Old Soviet joke: There is no news in Izvestia and no truth in Pravda

Guerilla Surgeon said...

"It made me realise that all the people who had impressed me with their concerns about the vax provided a huge amount of background scientific information . They had excellent scientific and medical credentials and had every one of them been considered experts in their field until they offended the pro vaccine narrative concerning the mRNA experimental gene therapy products that required a redefinition of the word "vaccine" to be able to carry that name."

No kidding? How about naming them so we can judge how expert they were.

Where on earth did I say I was a Christian anonymous?

God help us, Nietzsche makes about as much sense as Jordan Peterson.

David George said...

GS: "I can't think of anyone who is in fact enamoured with Hamas"

This essay is about Pere and his Aotearoa Liberation outfit and his enthusiasm for Hamas. Chris from above (no not that above) "the whole four-minute video becomes an exercise in the most blatant propaganda. And not just any propaganda, Pere’s falsehoods are the falsehoods of Hamas and their Iranian backers – whose cause Pere equates with the cause of Māori nationalism in Aotearoa. Presumably, what Hamas terrorists did to the Jewish inhabitants of Southern Israel is what decolonisation looks like."

Similar sentiments from the Maori party etc.

Not a fan. My home town (Kaikohe) has been de-colonised, re-indiginised and ethnically cleansed beyond recognition.

David George said...

It's not just Maori ethnonationalists supporting Hamas & Co in NZ, the Lefties are on board as well. Ani O'Brien reports:

"Stumbled across a livestream of the Palestinian protest in Auckland.

Slightly concerned at the cheering when Joe (Irish guy) from Unite Union shouted into the mic “globalise the intifada”.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

"Thank you for your comments. It seems Chris is not the only one who is prepared to ‘call out’ his political team when they abandon their moral compass and fall short of the most basic standards of human decency. "

That's the thing about the left Brendan, we will criticise our own when we think they are wrong. Sometimes a little too much IMO. On the other hand the right will defend their fellows to the death – or at the least ignore what they are doing.

I posted several examples of Israeli settlers shooting innocent Palestinians in the West Bank and invited comment. All I got was crickets and David who said "I don't know enough about it." It's easy enough to find out, why don't you educate yourselves?

Still waiting for a comment on the Alex Jones thing. Still waiting for someone to explain how to guard against the harm complete freedom of speech does to innocent people.

As far as experts are concerned – never trust anyone who puts that word in inverted commas. It's easy enough to check their credentials – they are usually associated with some academic organisation, and their qualifications are posted for all to see. Including their publications usually as well. They are not simply pronounced expert by the MSM. Not to mention that no one is insisting that only experts are allowed to speak. Least of all me. I just think we should listen to them rather than random nongs on the Internet.

David Stone said...

@ GS
I had a go at naming some for you a few months ago on here but my little comment did no t appear. I suspect that if I made references again the comment would not appear again. But at this stage of the story there is so much being reported on the internet on this subject that a small amount of time spent will produce you many hours of research. .

David Stone said...

@ GS again just in case these suggestions do get published I suggest you start with Dr John Campbell. Then you could look up Dr Sucharit Bhakdi , Robert Malone , Aseen Malhutra ; Check out "Ask Dr Drew for a series of interviews . By the time you'r finished with where they lead you you will have a myriad of leads and introductions to follow up. Dr Mike Yeadon who used to be Pfizer's lead scientist is a passionate and interesting example, and if you'r curiosity is piqued you could refer to Dr Peter Mc Cullough .
Happy hunting.

Frankie Lee said...

What is it with you and Jordan Peterson GS? Honestly,you seem obsessed with the man.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Sucharit Bhakdi:

In 2020 and 2021 Bhakdi became a prominent source of misinformation about the COVID-19 pandemic, claiming that the pandemic was "fake" and that COVID-19 vaccines were going to decimate the world's population.[4][3]

He was a professor at the University of Mainz, where he was head of the Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hygiene. The university has disassociated itself from Bhakdi's views on the Coronavirus pandemic.[5] In 2021 Bhakdi's publisher broke off relations following the appearance of an online video in which Bhakdi made antisemitic comments.

I'm pretty sure that the world population hasn't been decimated.

Robert Malone:
In November 2021, Malone shared a deceptive video on Twitter that falsely linked athlete deaths to COVID-19 vaccines. In particular, the video suggested that Jake West, a 17-year-old Indiana high school football player who succumbed to sudden cardiac arrest, had actually died from COVID-19 vaccination. However, West had died years earlier.

If I remember correctly, he lied about inventing the vaccines as well.

Aseen Malhotra:

he campaigned against the use of COVID mRNA vaccines[13] contrary to the available evidence.[14] In November 2021, Malhotra appeared on GB News to discuss an abstract for an academic poster published by Steven Gundry and which the American Heart Association had warned may contain "potential errors". Malhotra claimed that the abstract supported "a significantly increased risk from 11% at five years, the risk of heart attack, to 25%." after taking mRNA vaccines against COVID-19. Full Fact warned that "Serious concerns have been raised as to the quality of the research"
"On 13 January 2023, during a BBC interview on the prescription of statins, Malhotra made unprompted claims about excess cardiac deaths and Covid vaccines. The BBC apologised that these claims were not challenged at the time.[77] The British Heart Foundation and scientific experts including noted immunologist Peter Openshaw subsequently refuted the claims."

John Lorimer Campbell:
is an English YouTuber and retired nurse educator He has been criticised for suggesting COVID-19 deaths have been over-counted, repeating false claims about the use of ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment, and providing misleading commentary about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines"

DR Drew Pinsky:
Between February and March 2020, Pinsky made a series of statements concerning the COVID-19 outbreak where he downplayed the seriousness of the pandemic, stating that it was not as bad as the flu, and suggested that it was a "press-induced panic".[37] Pinsky apologized in April 2020, and he urged people to follow the advice of Anthony Fauci.

Jesus David, they are a bunch of eccentrics and nongs. For Christ's sake stop being so gullible. At least Penske has come to his senses and apologised for his misinformation. If you want to take horse medicine, or shovel lightbulb up your bum fine, but stop for crying out loud promoting it here. Why the hell are conservative so damned gullible.

You know, 20 or so years ago when I used to comment on the Huffington post I used to ask conspiracy theorists and the like "I know what would change my mind (I would say what evidence I needed here) – what would change yours?

In the hundreds of times I asked this question – just once did somebody say "well if I saw evidence of ...". The answer was almost inevitably "Nothing, because I know I'm right." You have been caught in a web of deceit and misinformation if not outright disinformation David. You really should try to lift yourself out of it.

Maybe start with the fact that at least one dire prediction – the decimation of the world population – hasn't happened, and go from there.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Frankie. Jordan Peterson is a fraud. He does immense damage to sad young men. He also spreads misinformation and disinformation. I wouldn't mention him at all if people didn't reference him as some sort of infallible guru.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

"The only safe way to oppose disinformation / misinformation is to counter it with the truth"

Well David that's an interesting statement. Surely if that were true then people on this site would change their minds when presented with evidence that goes against their beliefs?
Can you provide me with one example from Chris's post where this has happened?

Recently I provided information from reputable news sources about Israeli settlers murdering Palestinian villagers in the West Bank. I got two replies. One was from David who said "I don't know enough about it." Which suggested to me that he hadn't read the sources I provided. And the other rather stupidly said "What were the Palestinians doing, playing canasta?" Which at the least said to me that they haven't read the sources either.

I think I'm going to take a holiday. This place has become a hive of conspiracy theories and general nuttery. Which, funnily enough Chris said he wasn't going to allow some time ago – at least with regards to Covid misinformation. That seems to have gone by the board and I'm tired of repeating myself to people who are immune to evidence.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

You know what? Nietzsche sometimes does make sense. 😇

Chris Trotter said...

To: Guerilla Surgeon.

First of all, let me thank you, GS, for accepting David Stone's challenge and tracking down the individuals mentioned in his comment. It would seem that he is, indeed, the victim of mis/disinformation on the subject of Covid-19 and the Pfizer vaccine.

Secondly, I would invite you to consider that what you did perfectly illustrates the wisdom of keeping the discussion as frank and free as possible. Had I simply censored David, no one would have derived the clear benefit that your exposure of the weaknesses in his argument made possible.

The people who comment on this blog are tenacious defenders of their point of view - and you GS are among the most tenacious. By preserving a space where wildly differing points of view get to contend with one another, I believe that the Bowalley Road community of readers edges ever closer to the Truth.

By all means take some time out if the battle has exhausted you - but please don't make your absence permanent.

We need you.

John Hurley said...

here's an idea for a novel.
Robots solve the low paid worker problem. They are made by Luxon Corp and are woke as hell?
Nga mihi!

David Stone said...

@ GS
Well you have done some Googling and predictably found the takedowns of all the person's mentioned. That is precisely the point I was making. Misinformation / Disinformation is information that someone in authority does not want you to know or have access to. Hence the plethora of attacks on those people I mentioned.
What one needs to do in this situation; all anyone can do , is to examine the arguments made by those individuals and evaluate it to the best of their ability.
"If you want to take horse medicine, or shovel lightbulb up your bum fine, but stop for crying out loud promoting it here:" This is a classic widely spread piece of disinformation, A catchy phrase used to ridicule a drug that has been prescribed to millions of humans over decades and about the safest drug ever produced . the inventors were awarded the Nobel prise for medicine in 2015 i think it was and for it's use in human medicine not it's veterinary application. although as with most antibiotics it is effective in both. We are all animals after all. There are studies published that suggest it has an application agains covid and others that suggest it does not. At the time it was being promoted by some and officially banned and ridiculed the only studies done where by individual doctors with limited resources. To ban it as was done before the vaccines were available the health authorities only appropriate action would have been to conduct large studies that were conclusive themselves but all they did was to ridicule and ban. Not confidence inspiring.
I appreciate that you and nearly everyone else has committed yourself to the mandated narrative.And have a serious need to believe that you have done the right thing for your health and that of your family. I also appreciate that it was reasonable at the time to do so . In fact most of the names I suggested did so themselves to wit Dr John Campbell, Robert Malone . Aseem Malhotra and I think Peter McColough at least.
It was reasonable to believe that our government would not recommend something harmful and that our health authorities would advise and study appropriately and independently. You have a huge investment in being correct in this instance ,
Cheers D J S

David George said...

Struggling to understand the perverse motivations behind the embrace of "decolonisation"?

Here's a fine essay by Professor Doug Stokes.

"As such, the decolonial critique, denigrating the West and elevating the poor ‘colonised’ other, provides its advocates with a sense of crude moral superiority. At the same time, it deprives those living in the non-Western world of agency. Indeed, it erases the complex ways in which non-Western states and civilisations have shaped their own history; and how they have pursued colonialism, extra-territorial conquest and engaged in brutal, barbaric behaviour themselves – in the past and, as we saw all too recently with Hamas’s terror attack, the present."


"The inhumanity on display from so many immersed in decolonisation theory is an indictment of today’s academic culture. Too many have shown themselves incapable of seeing the Hamas atrocities for what they were – acts of anti-Semitic barbarism. They see everything through the narrow, abstract lens of decolonisation, categorising whole groups of people, from Jews to Arabs, as oppressors or oppressed according to intersectional ideology.

Academia needs to wake up. The radical chic of the decolonisers and the broader politics of repudiation is having profound and terrible effects on the world. Tolerance and mutual respect must be learnt and transmitted anew to each generation through our institutions and broader culture. If we fail to do so, we put our multi-ethnic, multi-racial society in grave peril."

RedLogix said...

@ Chris - I think out of courtesy many people do not want to turn your comment threads into yet another COVID battle, when there are plenty of other places where it is more appropriate. Nonetheless this thread has already headed down this path some distance - so I trust you might indulge me in a few more steps.

In 2021 I was working in West Australia - a state completely free of COVID - and needed to be vaxxed in order to return to QLD at the end of my 12 month contract. Three weeks after my second dose I had my first strange muscular symptoms that was later in 2022 formally diagnosed as myasthenia gravis - one of the more uncommon autoimmune conditions that causes severe muscle weakness. Overall I consider myself relatively fortunate - there are far worse conditions to have - but this has altered my life permanently and not for the good.

Autoimmune conditions are widely understood to have a genetic, environmental and dietary component to them - but there is almost a trigger event that turns an otherwise subclinical case into becoming symptomatic. I have had two neurologists and two good GP's agree the vax was the most likely trigger in my case. And there are now plenty of documented clinical reports online reporting the exact same case as mine.

I never caught COVID itself, and this was confirmed by a recent test while was in hospital being treated for the MG. The neurologist went on to volunteer that given my history I should never take a booster shot.

Collectively, across cardiac, cancer and autoimmunity the serious adverse event rate from the COVID vaxes stands at about 1 in 900 which is far too high. Not to mention the persistent excess death rates which no-one wants to talk about.

At the same time I accept that most people were not impacted - the same data above tells us that 899 in 900 people did NOT have a serious reaction to the vaccines and have no experience to tell them otherwise. If these people look at the conflicting narratives I really do not blame them for not understanding who to believe.

What truly irks me though are those - who for largely political reasons - will never accept any evidence that contradicts their "safe and effective" narrative. They deny there were any trade-offs to the lockdowns and mandates. They label people 'frauds', 'cookers' and 'nutters' and tell people like me that what we experienced did not happen. Which is where I draw a line - I can accept that we all make mistakes, even terrible ones. What I cannot tolerate is those who refuse to learn from them.

Kit Slater said...

I won’t normally respond to Guerilla Surgeon, but there may be other commentators who think he has a point when he “provided information from reputable news sources about Israeli settlers murdering Palestinian villagers in the West Bank” then complains about a lack of response.

Given the Middle East morality of retaliation, the murder of Israelis by Palestinians and vice versa makes the 28-year Hatfields and McCoys feud seem trivial in the extreme.

Israel is at war with an agency which intends to complete the goal of the Wannsee Conference. It will not permit the lack of support for Jews from the international community to happen again, and takes total responsibility for the protection of the lives of its citizens. This no doubt contributes to Israelis being the fourth-happiest people in the world. New Zealand is tenth.

Israel publishes a list of terrorism victims. Unlike Palestine, Israel does not produce or support terrorism, so there is no equivalent list of Palestine victims.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

" serious adverse event rate from the COVID vaxes stands at about 1 in 900"

Citation please?

Figures from the US show it is in fact .005%. Even with your figures it's only .1%, and many of the self-reported instances are never verified. So we don't know if they just coincidence or not.

What truly irks me are those who will believe pretty much anything they read that goes against the "mainstream narrative", because there is some conspiracy to hide evidence or something.

D'Esterre said...

Chris, I greatly value your commitment to free speech, and your willingness to publish dissenting views.

The reverse has been noticeable at the Daily Blog. I don't go there much any more, because my comments on Martyn's posts have been censored.

Although if there's a post from you, I'll read it and sometimes comment; I note that my comments are always published.

I've noted, too, that Malcolm Evans publishes my comments. The same is true of some other authors.

With regard to the coronavirus vaccine, I was dubious about it, because of the speed with which it was developed, along with the resulting paucity of clinical trials. However, being an advocate of vaccination (and in group 3), I had three shots. I won't have any more. While I myself had no negative side-effects, a young and otherwise healthy relative did. And those side-effects were sufficiently severe that I've advised said relative not to have any further shots. At the same time, it was becoming very obvious that the vaccine didn't prevent illness (despite government claims at the time). Members of several households in our street were ill, despite having been vaccinated. In some cases, they were very sick. In addition, vaccinated family members were sick. My GP has made heroic efforts to persuade me to have further vaccinations. To no avail. I'm a fan of vaccines which actually prevent the illness. What's the point otherwise?

Recently, a relative with connections into the world of microbiology told me that pretty much everybody in NZ has had exposure to the virus, even if they haven't been sick. That sounds about right to me. So: I'm avoiding further vaccinations. But I don't feel the need to shout about the issue, as many commenters seem to want to do.

I had never heard of Pere Huriwai-Seger, though his views aren't altogether surprising. It looks as if his "reach" is fairly limited, if he must rely upon Instagram. I've taken issue elsewhere with the conflation of Palestine with countries such as NZ. But he wouldn't be alone in supporting, if not advocating, violent decolonisation. The last thing NZ needs is somebody with charisma, combined with views of that sort. He could amass a following, but I hope not. We've seen elsewhere in the world the tragic consequences of such extremism.

Recently, a friend in Australia sent us a copy of an interview with that Waititi fellow from the Maori party. I think it was from "The Australian". In the interview, Waititi refers to those of us not Maori as "tauiwi" (foreigners or visitors). It isn't a giant step from such characterisation to beliefs in violent decolonisation. This is one of the reasons that I was so pleased at the election outcome. Provided the incoming National government doesn't do anything well-meaning but stupid, the Maori party has been defanged, at least for the current term. So also the Greens, who would still have my support, were they to confine themselves to environmental issues, instead of falling down the rabbit hole of social justice, as they've done.

Brendan McNeill said...

Dear GS

I spent a good deal of time in 2021 researching the Pfizer product, the fatality rate for Covid-19, determining who was most at risk, and creating a spreadsheet from Medsafe’s data comparing the rate of serious adverse events between the flu shot and the Pfizer covid-19 shot.

You can review my spreadsheet data here:

I was prompted to do this because Dr Betty who was the director of the Royal NZ College of GP's said in the following article dated 10 June 2021, “The Pfizer vaccine, being used in New Zealand, has already been administered to millions around the world with no more serious side effects than the flu vaccine.”

From my data I knew this statement was completely false. Medsafe's was consistently reporting the Pfizer vaccine to be 35 times more likely to cause serious injury during 2021. Reference my spreadsheet link above or do your own research. My request to Dr Beaty and the Medical Council to correct his statement went unheeded.

Consequently the public did not have informed consent; they were seriously mislead about the safety of the Pfizer vaccine. However because there was only one permitted narrative, the story in Stuff was never corrected.

The FDA reports that somewhere between 1% and 10% of Serious Adverse Events (SAE’s) are reported, it will likely be similar here in NZ. Reference:

If SAE’s were at the upper end of the FDA's testimony at 10% reporting, here in NZ that's one SAE for every 468 Pfizer shots. 20% reporting delivers one serious adverse event for every 936 Pfizer shots.

Therefore RedLogix’s assertion of 900 SAE’s for the Pfizer shot is likely to be reasonably accurate if both the FDA and Medsafe are to be believed.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

I thought I would give myself a holiday from the toxic, humourless place this has become but I think I'll just have one more go.

I would normally respond to Kit Slater, because normally all he does is parrot long debunked Israeli hasbara. But the ignorance shown about the West Bank situation deserves a reply.
It's obvious from reading the news sources that the murder of Palestinians on the West Bank is not necessarily a tit for tat affair, but an organised attempt to drive Palestinians away from their land. Shown by the fact that the Israeli army often simply stands and watches.

I really hoped Kit that you would have kept your boast to your mate Dufresne to leave this place because you don't like the fact that people use nom de plumes. But I guess we can't rely on you to do that – pity because you're one of the people who makes this place toxic.

Your "critique" of Maori and Polynesian societies has made your racism obvious for some time now, and I suppose I might have expected it to be applied to Palestinians as well. (Who have in contrast to your opinion lived in the area at least as long as Jews. Just thought I'd get that in as I'm about to take a break.) If you knew anything about the history of the place other than what you learned from propaganda sites you know they are just as "autochthonous" as anyone there.

Israel is at war with Hamas, which is not supported by all the Palestinians, and certainly by no one here – although after this effort by the Israeli army there will almost certainly be more of them. The Palestinians however live under an occupation that restricts every aspect of their life. Your refusal to recognise this, or your penchant to simply excuse it is egregious. Everyone here has condemned Hamas's killing of civilians – AFAIK I might have missed someone who didn't – none of you Zionists have done anything but make excuses for the killing of Palestinian children. I don't know where your callousness comes from, but you might like to look into yourself about that. Lack of empathy for anyone but their own is characteristic of conservatives – so I guess it's just innate. Conservative brains they say are different. Not a difference I admire, but not anything I can do much about. Except expose your opinions to the light.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

"For what its worth on the Iraq thing you were right and I was wrong."

Jesus Christ, I've just been proven wrong by Tom Hunter. Someone has admitted to being wrong. And I've just seen a pig fly past my bedroom window.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Thank you for those kind words Chris. Perhaps you could ascertain if David has changed his mind – I really doubt it. Still I will be back, my 17-year-old car gave up the ghost a while ago and I bought at some expense a hybrid electric Nissan Note. My son and I are thinking of taking a road trip while my wife is in Australia visiting relatives. A bit of male bonding.

David Stone said...

@ GS
I agree with you almost entirely on your view of the Palestinian situation. I hope that doesn't make you feel too uncomfortable
On the other issue though I have spent countless hours over the last 3 years researching this subject and the flippant remarks you have made in relation to the people i have referred . Quoting the inevitable google takedowns of them that do not begin to address the subjects they have addressed or the scientific arguments they have made falls a long way short of reversing the opinions I hold on this subject. It would take several books to cover that adequately so I.m not going to attempt it here.
Cheers D J S

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Well David, you have just won me five dollars. I had a small bet with someone who said that no one could be that immune to evidence. I said yes you could. I'm not going to investigate in any more detail, I haven't got that long left to live. :) All I can say is that if a much worse disease arrives in the country with a much higher death rate, I hope you abandon your nonsensical woo and get yourself vaccinated. Strangely, I would miss you.

Guerilla Surgeon said...

Brendan. Here is some research which might help you.

I think it's a little more complicated than your spreadsheet could manage.

Brendan McNeill said...

Dear GS

Thank you for linking to the somewhat anodyne report from the BMJ. However, if you want to refute my data, you need to take it up with Medsafe.

Your other option is to find fault with the basic formula in my simple spreadsheet.

Throughout the 'pandemic' I have relied upon raw data from accredited sources. While these agencies often attempted to obfuscate their data with conclusions supporting the 'preferred narrative' I found the data itself to be instructive.

In the words of John Adams, facts are stubborn things.

Anonymous said...

The misinformation from the "left" often tries the trick of claiming validation from science, while, at the same time, actually promoting anti-scientific ideologies.

For example, that well known chemist, Shaneel Lal, writing in his column in the Herald on Sunday (November 5, "Conservatives need to grow up"). He points out he was taught in basic chemistry there's a difference between cis and trans isomers. That's perfectly correct, cis and trans are useful terms describing real differences in some molecular structures.

He then skips the whole science of biology, to claim cis and trans now have some real scientific meaning in describing human beings, and calls on "anti-trans groups" to accept "scientific evidence". Apparently, "we" now understand "nuances of gender" that were previously hidden. That's news to me.

Dame Jacinda Adern spoke in her valedictory speech of turning to science for guidance. Not only in public policy, but in the most intimate aspects of life, particularly her wish to become a mother. She underwent an unsuccessful round of IVF before becoming PM. Perhaps Shaneel Lal could have a catch up with Dame Jacinda, on the biological science of how human beings actually reproduce?

On the other hand, perhaps Dame Jacinda's trust in, and defence of, science and scientists is not nearly as rigorous as she might like us to believe. Remember Siouxsie Wiles? Fearless public defender of science, and New Zealander of the Year for her science communication in the first wave of the pandemic? An award given to her by Dame Jacinda in person? Siouxsie, the darling of the Labour government, until sticking to the science meant no longer being in tune with the government's messaging? Who was then replaced by others, more in tune with the government?

Siouxsie Wiles is now taking legal action against her employer, the University of Auckland, for failure to protect her adequately. I think that this is an important case, involving an important aspect of academic freedom. Does academic freedom include academics speaking up on controversial issues? Surely the "critic and conscience" role actually requires that? Surely the University saying, in effect, "shut up, it's not part of your job to speak up" is betraying part of what a university should be, and is publicly funded to be?

And where is Dame Jacinda, staunch advocate for science? Why isn't she giving evidence on the importance of science to her and her government? Of relying on Siouxsie's science communication? Of how deserving Siouxsie was of the New Zealander of the Year, and how proud Dame Jacinda was to personally award her that honour? Personally, I'm not holding my breath waiting for Dame Jacinda to give any such evidence.